Will real life courses cut it?

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Wolverin3

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« on: May 04, 2014, 05:54:46 AM »
If and when we see the tools for the creator get updates, and people start to make real life courses, do you think they are going to be any good for the game or just way to easy to play.

I started making Bethpage black, which apart from 1 hole I think could be made in the creator now..but have now scrapped it because I think some guys will just tear it up and players will not like it due to it being too easy.

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Aridian Sands
New The Gobi Golf Club V2
The Gobi Golf Club
Autumn Gold
Golden Sands GC
Waterfront Golf Club (Hard - firm fairways - fast greens)
New Waterfront Golf Club ( more friendly version )

NevadaBallin

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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2014, 06:41:49 AM »
If the person doing the course takes the time to be detailed enough, the replica courses should be fine. But if they start have a "that's good enough" attitude and stray from the actual course they are trying to make, then the course won't won't hold much integrity... and the creator's reputation for making replica courses will take a hit.

Doing replicas of famous/popular courses correctly is going to be extremely time consuming. I'll be using the Swing By Swing smartphone app for the ones I do since it will tell me the distance from the tee of anything on a hole simply by clicking on that item on its Google map interface.

Let me see if i can get a screenshot from my phone to here.
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NevadaBallin

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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2014, 06:56:09 AM »
Here's the first hole at Montreaux down the street from me. They play the PGA Reno-Tahoe Open here every year.




Here is what happens when I tap the screen. I wanted to check the distance from the tee for that bunker.



.
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***TGC 2019 Courses***
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- St Alphonso GC FXD
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Wolverin3

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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2014, 07:52:00 AM »
I have a similar app on my ipad, which is where I got the yardage..bunker shape ..green shape etc...it took me over 4 hours just to do 2 holes on Bethpage course...hole 2 was a nightmare to get right (when I say right...I mean elevation, slope, and distance)..then I played the holes and relaised its just going to be too easy...will probably fall into the easy category of the game and nobody will bother with it.

4 hours for 2 easyish holes was just too much effort to put in just to probably see it get played 20 times and then forgotten about.

I guess other classics like Augusta or St Andrews might work because of devilishly tough greens, but others I think will just not cut it. 

My honest opinion and by no means correct, just a passing thought while I wasted over 4 hours on 2 holes lol.
Courses Created
---------------------------------
Aridian Sands
New The Gobi Golf Club V2
The Gobi Golf Club
Autumn Gold
Golden Sands GC
Waterfront Golf Club (Hard - firm fairways - fast greens)
New Waterfront Golf Club ( more friendly version )

Kamshaft

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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2014, 12:08:09 PM »
Real life courses is where the major hurdles will be.

1. Getting everything accurate, or relatively accurate.
2. Obtaining the resource materials (i.e. Buildings etc...)
3. Making the hardcore guys happy.

What I'd like to see in the creator is a elevation meter, in the same units are the creator Yards, and Feet.  Right now the elevation is in Meters. LOL  I'm Canadian, but let's keep is consistent.

Once you have a elevation gauge, you can run out to the course with a phone of GPS and get elevation readings yourself.
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Twin Oak Islands Links Golf Club
Knotty Pines Golf Club
Rattlesnake Canyon Golf Club
Sharp Lake Executive Golf Club
Swan Hills Golf Club

theclv24

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« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2014, 01:47:45 PM »
Much like the fictional courses, the greens will be the most effective way to protect a hole. For some courses where it's easy to know the greens, like Augusta, I think it's just a matter of play testing all of the different pin locations and pick the one that will be hardest based on how people play this game. The hardest pin in real life may not be the hardest in the game. Luckily I have footage from all 4 rounds at Merion, so I've been play testing to find the hardest locations. Honestly, it's a ton of fun!

For courses where we don't know the greens, I would say make sure they fit the overall landscape and make them realistic as possible, but then get creative and make sure not to just place the pin in a flat area where it can be attacked with no fear.

For courses in general, I would just say to play test as many times as humanly possible, and look for subtle ways to increase the difficulty that doesn't alter the character and experience of the course. It's way more work than creating a fictional course, but I think it's important for the longevity of the game.

xusemagru

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« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2014, 06:16:41 PM »
Easy is relative if you make the course firmer than slow and the green speeds faster than medium it will be tougher! also you can control where to put the pins on the course now so you can make them a bit tougher than in real life. Just remembering bethpage from tiger those greens are not that easy
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Hunters Ridge C.C.
Magru National C.C.
Magru Canyon

ralphieboy72

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« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2014, 06:20:48 PM »
The simple answer is no.  Not the way the game physics are right now.  Too easy to get up and down from anywhere within 100 yards of the hole, whether you need to do that for par or birdie.

Wolverin3

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« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2014, 06:57:45 PM »
Bethpage greens are not easy, but this game makes it easy to get close, if it had a different spin/loft mechanism..it may work differently...the way it is now where you control loft/fade/draw etc..is just completely wrong....take WGT for example..full backspin on a club will knock off 3-8 yards or so, so its all in power control..but here..you can take a 190yd club down to 121 flop shot 100% power!!!!!
and I know the triangle gets smaller..but you can still hit those straight 95% of the time with a pad.

If they took that away...(the crazy loft)..courses would play how they should, but right now...its turning into crazy golf.

So..for now..I guess real life courses wont be worth it...shame.



Courses Created
---------------------------------
Aridian Sands
New The Gobi Golf Club V2
The Gobi Golf Club
Autumn Gold
Golden Sands GC
Waterfront Golf Club (Hard - firm fairways - fast greens)
New Waterfront Golf Club ( more friendly version )

xusemagru

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« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2014, 07:29:07 PM »
Bethpage greens are not easy, but this game makes it easy to get close, if it had a different spin/loft mechanism..it may work differently...the way it is now where you control loft/fade/draw etc..is just completely wrong....take WGT for example..full backspin on a club will knock off 3-8 yards or so, so its all in power control..but here..you can take a 190yd club down to 121 flop shot 100% power!!!!!
and I know the triangle gets smaller..but you can still hit those straight 95% of the time with a pad.

If they took that away...(the crazy loft)..courses would play how they should, but right now...its turning into crazy golf.

So..for now..I guess real life courses wont be worth it...shame.

But how many people are truly shooting crazy scores on difficult courses? couple under sure but nothing crazy.
Courses Created:

Hunters Ridge C.C.
Magru National C.C.
Magru Canyon

Wolverin3

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« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2014, 07:44:32 PM »
That still doesnt take away that the loft/spin mechanism is stupid....you dont see pros take a 4 iron out to land a 130 yard shot dead on the green, there just isnt that kind of loft on that club.....and this is also why people are making stupid crazy courses...thinking it makes it harder....it doesnt, it turns it into crazy golf (no offence to designers)

Im not here to slate the game at all...but golf games need real courses...and as is now, I dont think they will work, and this game may fail before release ( I hope it doesnt )
Courses Created
---------------------------------
Aridian Sands
New The Gobi Golf Club V2
The Gobi Golf Club
Autumn Gold
Golden Sands GC
Waterfront Golf Club (Hard - firm fairways - fast greens)
New Waterfront Golf Club ( more friendly version )

ralphieboy72

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« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2014, 07:53:41 PM »
Bethpage greens are not easy, but this game makes it easy to get close, if it had a different spin/loft mechanism..it may work differently...the way it is now where you control loft/fade/draw etc..is just completely wrong....take WGT for example..full backspin on a club will knock off 3-8 yards or so, so its all in power control..but here..you can take a 190yd club down to 121 flop shot 100% power!!!!!
and I know the triangle gets smaller..but you can still hit those straight 95% of the time with a pad.

If they took that away...(the crazy loft)..courses would play how they should, but right now...its turning into crazy golf.

So..for now..I guess real life courses wont be worth it...shame.

But how many people are truly shooting crazy scores on difficult courses? couple under sure but nothing crazy.

True, but almost all of the courses I've seen created are not realistic courses. Trouble everywhere, narrow fairways, sloping greens, pins tucked.  Designers are trying to prevent people from lighting up their course. It's human nature. I'm a somewhat decent golfer in real life and I'd be scared to death to tackle some of these tracks in the real world.  If you make a truly realistic course, it's going to get carved up in this game.

xusemagru

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« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2014, 08:26:36 PM »
Bethpage greens are not easy, but this game makes it easy to get close, if it had a different spin/loft mechanism..it may work differently...the way it is now where you control loft/fade/draw etc..is just completely wrong....take WGT for example..full backspin on a club will knock off 3-8 yards or so, so its all in power control..but here..you can take a 190yd club down to 121 flop shot 100% power!!!!!
and I know the triangle gets smaller..but you can still hit those straight 95% of the time with a pad.

If they took that away...(the crazy loft)..courses would play how they should, but right now...its turning into crazy golf.

So..for now..I guess real life courses wont be worth it...shame.

But how many people are truly shooting crazy scores on difficult courses? couple under sure but nothing crazy.

True, but almost all of the courses I've seen created are not realistic courses. Trouble everywhere, narrow fairways, sloping greens, pins tucked.  Designers are trying to prevent people from lighting up their course. It's human nature. I'm a somewhat decent golfer in real life and I'd be scared to death to tackle some of these tracks in the real world.  If you make a truly realistic course, it's going to get carved up in this game.

I agree the spin is ridiculous and the pitch shot is bogus. But do we think anyone is really hitting 4 iron flops shots when it is just as easy to stick the 9 iron? as someone who is shooting some of these lower rounds I think firmer fairways and greens and faster greens will make it more difficult. right now everything is so soft and slow that of course it is easier to stick everything...thats just my IMO though
Courses Created:

Hunters Ridge C.C.
Magru National C.C.
Magru Canyon

ralphieboy72

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« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2014, 08:49:45 PM »
Bethpage greens are not easy, but this game makes it easy to get close, if it had a different spin/loft mechanism..it may work differently...the way it is now where you control loft/fade/draw etc..is just completely wrong....take WGT for example..full backspin on a club will knock off 3-8 yards or so, so its all in power control..but here..you can take a 190yd club down to 121 flop shot 100% power!!!!!
and I know the triangle gets smaller..but you can still hit those straight 95% of the time with a pad.

If they took that away...(the crazy loft)..courses would play how they should, but right now...its turning into crazy golf.

So..for now..I guess real life courses wont be worth it...shame.

But how many people are truly shooting crazy scores on difficult courses? couple under sure but nothing crazy.

True, but almost all of the courses I've seen created are not realistic courses. Trouble everywhere, narrow fairways, sloping greens, pins tucked.  Designers are trying to prevent people from lighting up their course. It's human nature. I'm a somewhat decent golfer in real life and I'd be scared to death to tackle some of these tracks in the real world.  If you make a truly realistic course, it's going to get carved up in this game.

I agree the spin is ridiculous and the pitch shot is bogus. But do we think anyone is really hitting 4 iron flops shots when it is just as easy to stick the 9 iron? as someone who is shooting some of these lower rounds I think firmer fairways and greens and faster greens will make it more difficult. right now everything is so soft and slow that of course it is easier to stick everything...thats just my IMO though

You are definitely a strong player from the scores I've seen. Much stronger than me.  Do you loft the club significantly for each and every shot?  I think some of the unrealistic ways you can manipulate the spin and loft have prevented me from playing more courses.  I've probably spent more time in the course creator or looking at the forums here hoping for some changes. Lol.

Wolverin3

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« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2014, 08:55:20 PM »
I agree with the soft slow, but Im thinking designers didnt/dont know how to change it at first...as its in the menu once you start your course up...press START on pad..and the options are under a different menu where you set the speeds of green and firmness of fairways...I never saw that until my 2nd course.

A 6 Iron flop holds better than a 8 iron shot at 138 yards....even better than a 7 iron with loft...which is why it should be changed.
Courses Created
---------------------------------
Aridian Sands
New The Gobi Golf Club V2
The Gobi Golf Club
Autumn Gold
Golden Sands GC
Waterfront Golf Club (Hard - firm fairways - fast greens)
New Waterfront Golf Club ( more friendly version )

 

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