TGC 2019 Difficulty (casual users vs sim users)

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Martbloke

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« Reply #60 on: August 10, 2018, 07:52:15 PM »
Just joined TGC True Sim tour to try it out. Holy crap is it fun. I three putted twice from 5 ft. You actually have to read the breaks and it makes being close to the pin that much more important. You actually get shaky over 6 footers because it's tough to tell tbe break at that distance and I had a few where I saw a break but it didn't happen. So much better of a game and I wish I tried it sooner. 

I've tried True Sim Tour play in both TGC 1 and 2.  I agree that it's tougher and calls more on your intuition.  The problem I have with it is I'm too lazy and too impatient to play that way.  It requires extra work to survey the green slope and as ashamed as I am to admit it; I'm just too lazy to put forth the amount of topographical survey effort needed to make myself competitive at it. 

I'll give it another try with TGC 2019 in 4K, as that might help read the slopes a little better with a quick glance.  I really want to eventually be playing that way because - on paper - it's got more things going for it that should appeal to me as a 10 handicap golfer.  I'll eventually get there I think, it's just been a much longer journey than I ever imagined it could be.  :)

John,

It really doesn’t take any longer to read a no-grid putt as it does with grid once you invest the time into it.

Playing without a grid also eliminates the “lying grid” issue.

True Sim settings is my preferred method of play by FAR and wish TGC TOURS would go gridless at the higher levels.

Trust me, the way you play video golf, True Sim settings are right down your alley if you would just commit to it.

Agreed!

jcauthen04

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« Reply #61 on: August 10, 2018, 09:02:20 PM »
John,

It really doesn’t take any longer to read a no-grid putt as it does with grid once you invest the time into it.

Playing without a grid also eliminates the “lying grid” issue.

True Sim settings is my preferred method of play by FAR and wish TGC TOURS would go gridless at the higher levels.

Trust me, the way you play video golf, True Sim settings are right down your alley if you would just commit to it.

I'm definitely going to give it another try, but it won't be until after TGC 2019 is released.  I just don't see any need in investing myself in a new process for something I'm only going to be playing for another two weeks, at most. 
 
Heck, after my last round in our Digital Sportspage Society tournament round today at Bellerive, anyone watching my 4, 3-putt green performance there would wonder if I can put with grids on :o
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johneric8

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« Reply #62 on: August 10, 2018, 09:21:17 PM »
Can't say I enjoy agreeing with Divot which I don't very often,  but he is right in the sense that you can get pretty quick and reading greens when going gridless.   I look at the terrain in background behind hole as well as the hole itself....  It's easy to make mistakes but it is also very realistic in my opinion..  It does take longer though overall in the grand scheme of things...  I don't find it fun though unless everyone is playing the same way when playing live...   Some of the matches I had without grids left many of my friends very frustrated with the process,  so it takes a special breed to play that way.
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FRSTDWN

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« Reply #63 on: August 10, 2018, 09:24:31 PM »
You need to find what works for you when playing with no grids. There are multiple camera angles you can use. The problem is if you don't know how to use those camera angles to get a read then your going to get frustrated. Also how your feet are sitting and how the putter head is angled can help you get a read. The one thing that grid players have to give up if they want to play no grids is certainty. Like real golf you will make miss reads and have really good days or even a stretch of good holes then it goes to ****.  The pay off is that it is so rewarding once you figure it out. I have never fist pumped so much in a video game then I have in this game from making putts. A lot of them have been par putts . Imagine that ! Getting excited for a par putt😁

The other thing no grids does is change your whole way of approaching the green literally.  Also when you have a 20 footer you will think twice about being too aggressive.

I wish HB would do a no grids tournament someday. If people would give it more of chance they would enjoy it.
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Coda1850

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« Reply #64 on: August 10, 2018, 09:46:12 PM »
If I'm playing without a grid I want the people playing with me playing the same gridless game.  The enjoyment is gone when I'm grinding out a 2 putt par & they get perfect slope reads & drain 20 footers.  That is where it is all lost.
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mebby

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« Reply #65 on: August 10, 2018, 10:08:17 PM »
I enjoy playing without grids from time to time.  If you use the dial-a-distance loft box to help ensure that you are rarely facing putts of more than 10 or so feet then you can read most putts and score reasonably well.  But I find reading putts of more than 10ish feet to be basically a crap shoot.

When I play without grids I also disable the scout camera but I leave the approach camera on.  I just played this way and shot even par on Hickory something or another (new course - it's a great one).
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DivotMaker

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« Reply #66 on: August 10, 2018, 10:22:08 PM »
You need to find what works for you when playing with no grids. There are multiple camera angles you can use. The problem is if you don't know how to use those camera angles to get a read then your going to get frustrated. Also how your feet are sitting and how the putter head is angled can help you get a read. The one thing that grid players have to give up if they want to play no grids is certainty. Like real golf you will make miss reads and have really good days or even a stretch of good holes then it goes to ****.  The pay off is that it is so rewarding once you figure it out. I have never fist pumped so much in a video game then I have in this game from making putts. A lot of them have been par putts . Imagine that ! Getting excited for a par putt😁

The other thing no grids does is change your whole way of approaching the green literally.  Also when you have a 20 footer you will think twice about being too aggressive.

I wish HB would do a no grids tournament someday. If people would give it more of chance they would enjoy it.

Um, THIS.

EXACTLY THIS. ;)
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FRSTDWN

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« Reply #67 on: August 10, 2018, 10:36:02 PM »
You need to find what works for you when playing with no grids. There are multiple camera angles you can use. The problem is if you don't know how to use those camera angles to get a read then your going to get frustrated. Also how your feet are sitting and how the putter head is angled can help you get a read. The one thing that grid players have to give up if they want to play no grids is certainty. Like real golf you will make miss reads and have really good days or even a stretch of good holes then it goes to ****.  The pay off is that it is so rewarding once you figure it out. I have never fist pumped so much in a video game then I have in this game from making putts. A lot of them have been par putts . Imagine that ! Getting excited for a par putt😁

The other thing no grids does is change your whole way of approaching the green literally.  Also when you have a 20 footer you will think twice about being too aggressive.

I wish HB would do a no grids tournament someday. If people would give it more of chance they would enjoy it.

Um, THIS.

EXACTLY THIS. ;)

Have you played without the putting marker Tim?
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DivotMaker

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« Reply #68 on: August 10, 2018, 11:07:01 PM »
You need to find what works for you when playing with no grids. There are multiple camera angles you can use. The problem is if you don't know how to use those camera angles to get a read then your going to get frustrated. Also how your feet are sitting and how the putter head is angled can help you get a read. The one thing that grid players have to give up if they want to play no grids is certainty. Like real golf you will make miss reads and have really good days or even a stretch of good holes then it goes to ****.  The pay off is that it is so rewarding once you figure it out. I have never fist pumped so much in a video game then I have in this game from making putts. A lot of them have been par putts . Imagine that ! Getting excited for a par putt😁

The other thing no grids does is change your whole way of approaching the green literally.  Also when you have a 20 footer you will think twice about being too aggressive.

I wish HB would do a no grids tournament someday. If people would give it more of chance they would enjoy it.

Um, THIS.

EXACTLY THIS. ;)

Have you played without the putting marker Tim?

Up until 5 months ago it was the only way I played.

Likely going to turn it off in 2019.
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chrashbird

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« Reply #69 on: August 11, 2018, 02:37:46 AM »
You need to find what works for you when playing with no grids. There are multiple camera angles you can use. The problem is if you don't know how to use those camera angles to get a read then your going to get frustrated. Also how your feet are sitting and how the putter head is angled can help you get a read. The one thing that grid players have to give up if they want to play no grids is certainty. Like real golf you will make miss reads and have really good days or even a stretch of good holes then it goes to ****.  The pay off is that it is so rewarding once you figure it out. I have never fist pumped so much in a video game then I have in this game from making putts. A lot of them have been par putts . Imagine that ! Getting excited for a par putt😁

The other thing no grids does is change your whole way of approaching the green literally.  Also when you have a 20 footer you will think twice about being too aggressive.

I wish HB would do a no grids tournament someday. If people would give it more of chance they would enjoy it.

I think the novelty of no grids would fade pretty quick for the average user. As rewarding as it is holing a 10 foot par putt, how many just want to shoot at pins and have simple birdie putts? You cant do that unless your name is Brad when playing TST style.

I remember playing the first full season on the RGT and there were 40 or so regulars every week. When we transitioned into the TST there was alot of excitement for this different style of play and over 300 people signed up. It didn't take long before these new players lost interest when they couldn't get anywhere close to those who could shoot in the 50's in a round, they even accused the veterans of cheating because they couldn't shoot as good. I think the number of players went back down to 50 or less a week.

4 years after RGT started and there are roughly 100 who play on the TST weekly which is less than play on the CC-Z on TGCTours. Maybe HB looks at these figures and thinks it's not worth trying to cater to the sim population that is a small percentage of the user base. If 2019 sells well to a new untapped market maybe they'll do more for sim in the next version. How many people who have never played TGC1 or 2 will even know 2019 is about to drop with the virtual non existant marketing strategy? Maybe there'll be some commercials during the Fed Ex cup as I'm sure they'd want to promote it if the PGA Tour receive a percentage from games sold?

McBogga

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« Reply #70 on: August 11, 2018, 02:42:27 AM »
I enjoy playing without grids from time to time.  If you use the dial-a-distance loft box to help ensure that you are rarely facing putts of more than 10 or so feet then you can read most putts and score reasonably well.  But I find reading putts of more than 10ish feet to be basically a crap shoot.

When I play without grids I also disable the scout camera but I leave the approach camera on.  I just played this way and shot even par on Hickory something or another (new course - it's a great one).

I find that the 7-10 footers are the hardest to read. Enough distance for a break to make the ball miss the hole, but close enough that it can be hard to make out that break.

I get pretty realistic sink percentages playing without grid. And there are few more rewarding feelings in gaming than sinking a 35 foot double breaker.

No grid is the only enjoyable way to play the game for me.

jeffbdvs

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« Reply #71 on: August 11, 2018, 03:13:51 AM »
I enjoy playing without grids from time to time.  If you use the dial-a-distance loft box to help ensure that you are rarely facing putts of more than 10 or so feet then you can read most putts and score reasonably well.  But I find reading putts of more than 10ish feet to be basically a crap shoot.

When I play without grids I also disable the scout camera but I leave the approach camera on.  I just played this way and shot even par on Hickory something or another (new course - it's a great one).

I find that the 7-10 footers are the hardest to read. Enough distance for a break to make the ball miss the hole, but close enough that it can be hard to make out that break.

I get pretty realistic sink percentages playing without grid. And there are few more rewarding feelings in gaming than sinking a 35 foot double breaker.

No grid is the only enjoyable way to play the game for me.


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Martbloke

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« Reply #72 on: August 11, 2018, 05:15:29 AM »
If I'm playing without a grid I want the people playing with me playing the same gridless game.  The enjoyment is gone when I'm grinding out a 2 putt par & they get perfect slope reads & drain 20 footers.  That is where it is all lost.

Against other online opponents for sure I agree which is why being able to lock options in societies is being requested. However if I was to play a match against friends who are not as good, then I wouldn't mind them having whatever options they wanted to make it an enjoyable and even matchup.

stan_solo

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« Reply #73 on: August 11, 2018, 07:42:46 AM »
Putting without grids is second nature to me ... played this way with every golf game I've owned

If HB didn't give us the option to disable grids .. I would not buy the game

DivotMaker

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« Reply #74 on: August 11, 2018, 11:38:27 AM »
You need to find what works for you when playing with no grids. There are multiple camera angles you can use. The problem is if you don't know how to use those camera angles to get a read then your going to get frustrated. Also how your feet are sitting and how the putter head is angled can help you get a read. The one thing that grid players have to give up if they want to play no grids is certainty. Like real golf you will make miss reads and have really good days or even a stretch of good holes then it goes to ****.  The pay off is that it is so rewarding once you figure it out. I have never fist pumped so much in a video game then I have in this game from making putts. A lot of them have been par putts . Imagine that ! Getting excited for a par putt😁

The other thing no grids does is change your whole way of approaching the green literally.  Also when you have a 20 footer you will think twice about being too aggressive.

I wish HB would do a no grids tournament someday. If people would give it more of chance they would enjoy it.

I think the novelty of no grids would fade pretty quick for the average user. As rewarding as it is holing a 10 foot par putt, how many just want to shoot at pins and have simple birdie putts? You cant do that unless your name is Brad when playing TST style.

I remember playing the first full season on the RGT and there were 40 or so regulars every week. When we transitioned into the TST there was alot of excitement for this different style of play and over 300 people signed up. It didn't take long before these new players lost interest when they couldn't get anywhere close to those who could shoot in the 50's in a round, they even accused the veterans of cheating because they couldn't shoot as good. I think the number of players went back down to 50 or less a week.

4 years after RGT started and there are roughly 100 who play on the TST weekly which is less than play on the CC-Z on TGCTours. Maybe HB looks at these figures and thinks it's not worth trying to cater to the sim population that is a small percentage of the user base. If 2019 sells well to a new untapped market maybe they'll do more for sim in the next version. How many people who have never played TGC1 or 2 will even know 2019 is about to drop with the virtual non existant marketing strategy? Maybe there'll be some commercials during the Fed Ex cup as I'm sure they'd want to promote it if the PGA Tour receive a percentage from games sold?

TST is not for the average user.

Not many know about it as it is a pretty well kept secret.

There is also a decent learning curve to TST that seems to be too steep for some users today.

TST appeals more to golfers who make up some, if not many of the simulation fans. Gamers are typically casual users who want to pick up and play and not grind through the round.

Lastly, using TGC TOURS TST numbers may or may not tell the story as far more users don’t play TGC TOURS or online competition. Only HBS knows what the numbers truly are assuming they have telemetry to track that kind of information.
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