Swing Tuning Server Update

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ddixjr509

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« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2018, 09:58:43 AM »
Decrease the penalty on the bunker lies with the ball sitting up to high 90s 80s and light rough the same way and it's a good update.

I managed 4 rounds before the patch was reversed and really enjoyed the changes. I had no issues other than the driver draw/fade line being invisible- but that's already well documented.  I really liked the variety of the rough thickness- the roughs are definitely a deterrent again.  I also agree with the criticism of the severity of the bunker lies.  I hit 8 bunkers (rolled/ trickled/ bounced into 6 of them and flew 2)- every single bunker lie was 55%-65%?
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JT_2905

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« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2018, 10:35:15 AM »
I noticed that when I tried to do loft clicks (on clubs where it’s allowed, obviously) that as much as two clicks seemed to have virtually no impact on my carry distance. Not too worried there, small sample size, need to learn the new system, totally fine.

The only thing I had a bit of an issue with was flop shots spinning back. I’m all for things not always being realistic because it just works better that way in a video game but I’m struggling with this one. Is it just intended to nerf flop shots because so many are too reliant on them for around the green shots? If that’s the argument then maybe I’m ok with it but still, even with the other physics changes this one still seems a little over the top and out of place compared to everything else.

I think k the issue with flops is really due to an overall flaw in the physics rules. Lofting a club up doesn't necessarily generate more spin. If you really want to spin a ball you hit down onto it (pinch it). This also requires a little more club speed.

The logic with the loft box is lofting up equals more spin and delofting equals less spin which in some ways is backwards. Since they've added more spin back into the game AND since more loft equals more spin (in this game) then I don't think there's much they can do with flops without a little but of surgery on the code.
Is the flop supposed to generate spin? I’ve never played the game in real life but when I watch players doing it on tv I’ve never seen them spin it back. I’ve read on the forum some wanting more spin and being told that’s not what the flop shot is supposed to do.
Like mebby said in real golf the spin is generated by the action of the club head pinching (compressing down) on the ball. Combined with enough club head speed, the ball runs up the club face and the grooves effectively grip the ball, imparting the back spin. I wouldn’t say for sure that a flop would never cause spin, but the way the shot is executed should make it much less likely. The club face is ‘opened’, so that it’s almost flat (face pointing straight up to the sky), the idea being that it slides under the ball. This is how the steep ball trajectory is implemented, but it also means there is little compression to impart the spin.

I tend to agree with mebby’s suspicion that the increased spin on the flop shot we saw yesterday post server patch is a by-product of inaccurate coding linking the spin to higher shot trajectory. It’s not perfect, but personally (if the coding can’t change) I’d rather put up with spin on flops and have the more accurate depiction on the wedges and short irons that we saw. That aspect was a huge improvement.

Regarding the changes to the effect of lies, I really liked what I experienced out of the rough because it undoubtedly needed to be more penal. If players don’t fear missing greens and fairways we are going to see the best designers being encouraged to trick courses up like we saw in TGC1. That would be bad news. I caveat that in the 18 holes I played before the change was reversed, I didn’t find a bunker and forgot to purposely test sand lies. There’s enough other feedback to suggest some work needs doing on distinguishing between plugged and bare lies in the sand, and the resultant percentage deduction.

But in terms of the light and heavy rough lies, the tightening of the loft box, and the slightly tougher fairway wood shots, I loved it. A big step towards realism imo. Good work there HB and I hope you don’t reverse it. I loved that in order to ‘extend’ the default range of a 3 wood off the deck so I could try and reach a green on a par 5 I had to manipulate the fast downswing to simulate the draw spin. It was 50/50 based on my ability (using master clubs) and when i pulled it off the satisfaction was fantastic. For the same reason I also loved having to nail an 85% wedge to find the pin because the ‘dial a distance’ loft box was changed. Great stuff.

In conclusion HB, examination needed on differentiating between plugged and bare bunker lies, and whether or not you can eliminate spin from flops without it affecting the good spin changes on the other shot types. Otherwise loving what I saw so good work guys and thanks for responding to feedback. Keep it coming :-)


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darvaan

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« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2018, 10:36:55 AM »
Liked all the changes except for the ridiculous bunker penalties. I don't want to have a 60% lie in fairway bunkers again like TGC2.
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MDgolf.ca

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« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2018, 10:37:56 AM »
Any idea why I can’t perform a backswing any longer?


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Can't take a swing at all?  SOMEBODY HELP THIS GUY!!!! I've seen him? post about this all over the place
I pull back in the left stick and it just hitches


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Do you have the same issue if you change your swing input to the other stick?
No that’s why it could be my controller


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MDgolf.ca

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« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2018, 10:39:55 AM »
Any idea why I can’t perform a backswing any longer?


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You mean your golfer doesn't perform a backswing when you pull back on the stick? I encounter that glitch the odd time, did during TGC2 also. The 2 things that would fix it for me were either...(on PS4) press the PS button on the controller and go back to the PS4 home screen then back into the game. The second was to pause the game and bring up the menu screen, then unpause and it should be back again.

Yes exactly.  When I pull back to shoot using the left stick the guy just kind of hitches and doesn’t allow me to make a full back swing.


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hoos4974

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« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2018, 10:45:22 AM »
I agree with what many others have said about the bunker lie percentages. A ball that just trickled in and laying on top of the sand should not be punished like one that is plugged down in the sand.

Everything else was spot on and gave me a very realistic feel, great job HB!

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Ro5hamBo

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« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2018, 10:48:09 AM »
It seems that making a post querying the quality of testing carried out prior to rolling out these changes is not acceptable and the post will be deleted... :o

gtgud

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« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2018, 10:50:45 AM »
In conclusion HB, examination needed on differentiating between plugged and bare bunker lies, and whether or not you can eliminate spin from flops without it affecting the good spin changes on the other shot types. Otherwise loving what I saw so good work guys and thanks for responding to feedback. Keep it coming :-)

Yes, the Flop shot needs to roll. There should be no such thing as backspin-zip on a Flop shot.

I would gather that, since Flop is a canned shot type, HB would be able to tune the spin to that particular shot, separate from other shot types.

For example, the Pitch shot, probably rolls too much. So, there's a sharp contrast.

But, Flops and Chips even, spin way too much for reality.

MDgolf.ca

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« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2018, 11:00:29 AM »
Any idea why I can’t perform a backswing any longer?


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You mean your golfer doesn't perform a backswing when you pull back on the stick? I encounter that glitch the odd time, did during TGC2 also. The 2 things that would fix it for me were either...(on PS4) press the PS button on the controller and go back to the PS4 home screen then back into the game. The second was to pause the game and bring up the menu screen, then unpause and it should be back again.

Yes exactly.  When I pull back to shoot using the left stick the guy just kind of hitches and doesn’t allow me to make a full back swing.


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If you are on the PC so you can try the following to see if your controller is defective:

1) On the windows desktop, click START->RUN

2) In the input box that appears, type JOY.CPL and hit return

3) This will launch the controller calibration app.

4) Select your controller from the list (if you have more than one connected) and click on Properties

5) This will bring up a window that will allow you to test all of the buttons, triggers and sticks on you controller.  You can also recalibrate your controller here too.
PS4


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madmaz116

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« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2018, 11:09:04 AM »
It seems that making a post querying the quality of testing carried out prior to rolling out these changes is not acceptable and the post will be deleted... :o

i think it was probably the manner in which you implemented it.

mebby

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« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2018, 11:34:57 AM »
I noticed that when I tried to do loft clicks (on clubs where it’s allowed, obviously) that as much as two clicks seemed to have virtually no impact on my carry distance. Not too worried there, small sample size, need to learn the new system, totally fine.

The only thing I had a bit of an issue with was flop shots spinning back. I’m all for things not always being realistic because it just works better that way in a video game but I’m struggling with this one. Is it just intended to nerf flop shots because so many are too reliant on them for around the green shots? If that’s the argument then maybe I’m ok with it but still, even with the other physics changes this one still seems a little over the top and out of place compared to everything else.

I think k the issue with flops is really due to an overall flaw in the physics rules. Lofting a club up doesn't necessarily generate more spin. If you really want to spin a ball you hit down onto it (pinch it). This also requires a little more club speed.

The logic with the loft box is lofting up equals more spin and delofting equals less spin which in some ways is backwards. Since they've added more spin back into the game AND since more loft equals more spin (in this game) then I don't think there's much they can do with flops without a little but of surgery on the code.
Is the flop supposed to generate spin? I’ve never played the game in real life but when I watch players doing it on tv I’ve never seen them spin it back. I’ve read on the forum some wanting more spin and being told that’s not what the flop shot is supposed to do.

Yea the flop shot spins but not as rapidly as it does on a normal shot.  You're just glancing the ball with your club head so the ball speed and spin rate is fairly slow compared to a normally struck shot.  It would be VERY difficult to make a flop shot back up under normal conditions.

How the ball behaves once it hits the green is based on three main factors:

1 - The spin rate
2 - The angle of attack (is it dropping straight down or coming in at an angle)
3 - The slope and firmness of the green where it strikes

IRL if you hit a lower trajectory shot it's going to likely have a fair amount of spin but since it's coming in at a lower angle of attack it's going to take a bigger hop once it hits and THEN try to back up based on spin.  Think of pushing the ball back in your stance a little and really hitting DOWN on the ball (kinda like playing tiddly winks if you've ever done that).  The ball is going to come out a little lower but it will have a ton of spin because you pinched down on it more so than you would if it were further up in your stance.

So it's a trade off between angle of attack and spin rate.  Different shots are used for different purposes.

JNPG got this concept down pretty well if you ask me.  Their "loft box" has a better representation of real golf IMHO.  I'm not saying that what HBS has done is particularly BAD - it's just not really true to the game of golf as much.  But if they've truly neutered the dial-a-distance capabilities of the loft box then it will be a HUGE step forward for the game even if the idea of loft and spin and angle of attack isn't as pure as I'd like to see it. 
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Matt43

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« Reply #41 on: October 10, 2018, 11:43:09 AM »
Didn’t even get chance to play the game with the new update before it was reverted back.

madmaz116

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« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2018, 11:48:51 AM »
Didn’t even get chance to play the game with the new update before it was reverted back.

Me neither , being in the UK prob didnt help though due to time difference , but it'll happen soon enough .. I hope lol

random scotsman

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« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2018, 01:32:33 PM »
I'm goni put this game on hold till the server patch is back up, after playing with the new setup I can't be bothered going back.to the old way then have to learn the new setup.

hammers1man

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« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2018, 03:03:58 PM »
I noticed that when I tried to do loft clicks (on clubs where it’s allowed, obviously) that as much as two clicks seemed to have virtually no impact on my carry distance. Not too worried there, small sample size, need to learn the new system, totally fine.

The only thing I had a bit of an issue with was flop shots spinning back. I’m all for things not always being realistic because it just works better that way in a video game but I’m struggling with this one. Is it just intended to nerf flop shots because so many are too reliant on them for around the green shots? If that’s the argument then maybe I’m ok with it but still, even with the other physics changes this one still seems a little over the top and out of place compared to everything else.

I think k the issue with flops is really due to an overall flaw in the physics rules. Lofting a club up doesn't necessarily generate more spin. If you really want to spin a ball you hit down onto it (pinch it). This also requires a little more club speed.

The logic with the loft box is lofting up equals more spin and delofting equals less spin which in some ways is backwards. Since they've added more spin back into the game AND since more loft equals more spin (in this game) then I don't think there's much they can do with flops without a little but of surgery on the code.
Is the flop supposed to generate spin? I’ve never played the game in real life but when I watch players doing it on tv I’ve never seen them spin it back. I’ve read on the forum some wanting more spin and being told that’s not what the flop shot is supposed to do.
Like mebby said in real golf the spin is generated by the action of the club head pinching (compressing down) on the ball. Combined with enough club head speed, the ball runs up the club face and the grooves effectively grip the ball, imparting the back spin. I wouldn’t say for sure that a flop would never cause spin, but the way the shot is executed should make it much less likely. The club face is ‘opened’, so that it’s almost flat (face pointing straight up to the sky), the idea being that it slides under the ball. This is how the steep ball trajectory is implemented, but it also means there is little compression to impart the spin.

I tend to agree with mebby’s suspicion that the increased spin on the flop shot we saw yesterday post server patch is a by-product of inaccurate coding linking the spin to higher shot trajectory. It’s not perfect, but personally (if the coding can’t change) I’d rather put up with spin on flops and have the more accurate depiction on the wedges and short irons that we saw. That aspect was a huge improvement.

Regarding the changes to the effect of lies, I really liked what I experienced out of the rough because it undoubtedly needed to be more penal. If players don’t fear missing greens and fairways we are going to see the best designers being encouraged to trick courses up like we saw in TGC1. That would be bad news. I caveat that in the 18 holes I played before the change was reversed, I didn’t find a bunker and forgot to purposely test sand lies. There’s enough other feedback to suggest some work needs doing on distinguishing between plugged and bare lies in the sand, and the resultant percentage deduction.

But in terms of the light and heavy rough lies, the tightening of the loft box, and the slightly tougher fairway wood shots, I loved it. A big step towards realism imo. Good work there HB and I hope you don’t reverse it. I loved that in order to ‘extend’ the default range of a 3 wood off the deck so I could try and reach a green on a par 5 I had to manipulate the fast downswing to simulate the draw spin. It was 50/50 based on my ability (using master clubs) and when i pulled it off the satisfaction was fantastic. For the same reason I also loved having to nail an 85% wedge to find the pin because the ‘dial a distance’ loft box was changed. Great stuff.

In conclusion HB, examination needed on differentiating between plugged and bare bunker lies, and whether or not you can eliminate spin from flops without it affecting the good spin changes on the other shot types. Otherwise loving what I saw so good work guys and thanks for responding to feedback. Keep it coming :-)


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And that's the same reason a full shot SW generates more backspin than a LW, a LW has too much loft to generate high backspin
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 03:05:44 PM by hammers1man »

 

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