Latest Tunings make zero sense to me - many problems

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neilwilkes

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« on: January 29, 2019, 07:48:17 AM »
Okay, sorry about this but something is clearly well broken in the swing mechanic.
First issue I have is when chipping. I set up with, say a Lob Wedge, add some loft, and do a very slow downswing by accident. What I expect to happen at this point is a total duff - seen it happen watching the real game and playing the real game when I have done it. What does not - ever - happen is that the club drops onto the ball, and even out of the rough sends is careering 25 yards across the green - a distance I cannot match with perfect/perfect.
The second issue is driving - if I time it right it is now possible to get perfect backswing with a slow downswing, cut into a tailwind - and the ball will travel a very substantial amount further than the same hole tee shot hit perfect/perfect.
This cannot be right.
I get the whole Power Fade thing, I do - but the ball should not drive longer with a slow downswing compared to a perfect one - this is mental.
And it certainly should not happen when chipping!! having a situation where I know full well I can exploit this is ludicrous, as I know perfect/very slow chip will always get me right out of trouble as long as there is enough green - but why oh why did anyone think that extending ball travel more with a slower downswing is a good idea?
Every time I am on the range & hit a ball with a slow downswing it goes a shorter distance - not a longer one.

Please fix this. I can learn to deal with it off the tee, but never when chipping - it make a mockery of trying to do a slow downswing with the intent being less distance travelled. Hit the ball softer should not ever make it travel further.

FRSTDWN

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« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2019, 08:26:16 AM »
Yup it's flawed. Before the last patch the swing made more sense as far as results from tempo. Perfect slow was a cut or you could do fast slow with some loft and do a high cut.  Fast fast produced a pretty power draw with a nice risk reward to it . Now it's all been nerfed but they decided to make a slow downswing be a power fade to make up for the fact that you can't manually fade the ball and get extra yards. Which a lot of pros do .

I've said a hundred times but swing path should be independent of tempo. If you wanted to swing out to in 5 to 11 with a perfect perfect tempo it should produce a fade. If you wanted a power fade it should be 5 to 11 perfect fast or ff. Tempo should also increase spin. If you hit a fast fast LW from the fairway onto the green it should spin way more on the green.   As of now I can spin the ball more with my wedges than on the game.

Imop the whole swing needs to be redone with the emphasis on total control with swing plane then tempo either enhaces your shot or has a negative impact on it.

Who knows what they will do. They don't talk or communicate much anymore. It is what it is though. This is all we got for a our golf fix 😁
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leslie.sangster

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« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2019, 09:32:30 AM »
I agree the slow downswing shouldn’t give you more distance and I think when you hit a fast downswing with your irons it should go further but give you more bite on your iron shots. You could then be able to hit a fast downswing wedge over the flag but get more backspin on  it pulling it back further than a perfect/perfect shot.
There have been times on this game when you know your over clubbed so mentally your trying to take a bit off by swinging slower but you end up hitting it even further because of the “power fade” doesn’t make sense.


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McBogga

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« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2019, 07:05:06 PM »
This thread has been done before. It made sense then and it makes sense now.

Impossible to understand these changes in combination with the developer and publisher calling the game “simulation sports”....

The power fade IS a good shot to implement,  but the implement it like it is hit - a slightly closed face to target with a path even more out to in. The HB swing model could easily represent this by a swing that produces a feedback line starting to the right of center and ending left of center with a slow tempo (considering the tempo to determine face to path and not face to target). But I think that HBs model actually does not relate to club face but is made with ball launch angle and spin axis as components which is counter intuitive considering that stick movement controls the golfers swing...

ratherbegolfing4

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« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2019, 01:23:53 PM »
Chipping  , I don’t understand.  On the practice green I get perfect -perfect , but during a match it’s never consistent

neilwilkes

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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2019, 09:54:01 AM »
Chipping  , I don’t understand.  On the practice green I get perfect -perfect , but during a match it’s never consistent

This happens to me, and it kinda does make sense - I have found that the more important (to me) the tourney I am playing in is then the more jittery I get. It's like real game nerves I think and is one of the things about this game I love.
However, hitting a fully lofted LW chip shot with perfect backswing & very slow downswing should not drop the club onto the ball & send it close to 25 yards across the damned green.

neilwilkes

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« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2019, 05:40:59 AM »
Yup it's flawed. Before the last patch the swing made more sense as far as results from tempo. Perfect slow was a cut or you could do fast slow with some loft and do a high cut.  Fast fast produced a pretty power draw with a nice risk reward to it . Now it's all been nerfed but they decided to make a slow downswing be a power fade to make up for the fact that you can't manually fade the ball and get extra yards. Which a lot of pros do .

I've said a hundred times but swing path should be independent of tempo. If you wanted to swing out to in 5 to 11 with a perfect perfect tempo it should produce a fade. If you wanted a power fade it should be 5 to 11 perfect fast or ff. Tempo should also increase spin. If you hit a fast fast LW from the fairway onto the green it should spin way more on the green.   As of now I can spin the ball more with my wedges than on the game.

Imop the whole swing needs to be redone with the emphasis on total control with swing plane then tempo either enhaces your shot or has a negative impact on it.

Who knows what they will do. They don't talk or communicate much anymore. It is what it is though. This is all we got for a our golf fix 😁

I cannot get any spin on wedges at all now - one bounce and stop is the best I can manage, and any form of actual backspin? forget it - just cannot be done.

Martbloke

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« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2019, 09:56:34 AM »
Yup it's flawed. Before the last patch the swing made more sense as far as results from tempo. Perfect slow was a cut or you could do fast slow with some loft and do a high cut.  Fast fast produced a pretty power draw with a nice risk reward to it . Now it's all been nerfed but they decided to make a slow downswing be a power fade to make up for the fact that you can't manually fade the ball and get extra yards. Which a lot of pros do .

I've said a hundred times but swing path should be independent of tempo. If you wanted to swing out to in 5 to 11 with a perfect perfect tempo it should produce a fade. If you wanted a power fade it should be 5 to 11 perfect fast or ff. Tempo should also increase spin. If you hit a fast fast LW from the fairway onto the green it should spin way more on the green.   As of now I can spin the ball more with my wedges than on the game.

Imop the whole swing needs to be redone with the emphasis on total control with swing plane then tempo either enhaces your shot or has a negative impact on it.

Who knows what they will do. They don't talk or communicate much anymore. It is what it is though. This is all we got for a our golf fix 😁

I cannot get any spin on wedges at all now - one bounce and stop is the best I can manage, and any form of actual backspin? forget it - just cannot be done.


LW & GW and maybe PW at times, loft up = backspin for me.

Also, with these wedges plus maybe up to 9I when shooting directly into a relatively strongish wind (maybe 12mph (half the wind meter filled)) and you get back spin too.

Cannot be done? no no, probably don't want to accept it can be done.

Anyhow, I agree that spin still needs looking at as it's not quite to the level of IRL pros and I'd like to see some kind of manual adjustment to cause a level of spin but a mechanic that is not like the loft box in it's predictability i.e. 2 clicks up = x amount of spin. It should be approximate and the spin added will either increase or decrease depending on club used, elevation, wind, landing zone - firmness and speed plus slope and of course how sweet your strike is.

neilwilkes

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« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2019, 08:54:45 AM »
Yup it's flawed. Before the last patch the swing made more sense as far as results from tempo. Perfect slow was a cut or you could do fast slow with some loft and do a high cut.  Fast fast produced a pretty power draw with a nice risk reward to it . Now it's all been nerfed but they decided to make a slow downswing be a power fade to make up for the fact that you can't manually fade the ball and get extra yards. Which a lot of pros do .

I've said a hundred times but swing path should be independent of tempo. If you wanted to swing out to in 5 to 11 with a perfect perfect tempo it should produce a fade. If you wanted a power fade it should be 5 to 11 perfect fast or ff. Tempo should also increase spin. If you hit a fast fast LW from the fairway onto the green it should spin way more on the green.   As of now I can spin the ball more with my wedges than on the game.

Imop the whole swing needs to be redone with the emphasis on total control with swing plane then tempo either enhaces your shot or has a negative impact on it.

Who knows what they will do. They don't talk or communicate much anymore. It is what it is though. This is all we got for a our golf fix 😁

I cannot get any spin on wedges at all now - one bounce and stop is the best I can manage, and any form of actual backspin? forget it - just cannot be done.


LW & GW and maybe PW at times, loft up = backspin for me.

Also, with these wedges plus maybe up to 9I when shooting directly into a relatively strongish wind (maybe 12mph (half the wind meter filled)) and you get back spin too.

Cannot be done? no no, probably don't want to accept it can be done.

Anyhow, I agree that spin still needs looking at as it's not quite to the level of IRL pros and I'd like to see some kind of manual adjustment to cause a level of spin but a mechanic that is not like the loft box in it's predictability i.e. 2 clicks up = x amount of spin. It should be approximate and the spin added will either increase or decrease depending on club used, elevation, wind, landing zone - firmness and speed plus slope and of course how sweet your strike is.

Loft Up?
I can set up full loft on a LW, hitting into a 10MPH Headwind & still get no backspin apart from one bounce & stop, maybe - just maybe - stop on the spot. But getting it to spin back? Nope. Only - and even then extremely rarely - on a fully lofted Lob Wedge Flop Shot. This is hitting perfect/perfect - I have tried for hours on the range, and it cannot be done.

leslie.sangster

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« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2019, 10:37:56 AM »
How about the closer you hit to the centre of the blue downswing segment the more perfect the strike and thus more backspin, so if your right in the centre that’s max backspin and out towards either edge minimum backspin.
Or tie it into the swing speed a fast swing not only hits it further but also puts maximum backspin so if you hit it over the flag because of a fast downswing there would be a chance you could spin it back towards the flag.

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« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 10:40:30 AM by leslie.sangster »

superaces

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« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2019, 12:32:45 PM »
Slow tempo does not mean a slow swing speed... It's confusing in-game and HB hasn't done much to explain it. I think they could remove the verbiage and people would react to the meter rather than the words.

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McBogga

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« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2019, 03:38:15 PM »
How about the closer you hit to the centre of the blue downswing segment the more perfect the strike and thus more backspin, so if your right in the centre that’s max backspin and out towards either edge minimum backspin.
Or tie it into the swing speed a fast swing not only hits it further but also puts maximum backspin so if you hit it over the flag because of a fast downswing there would be a chance you could spin it back towards the flag.

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Interresting mechanic, as it would mean spin control could be achieved by hitting shots inside the segment but not centered.

FRSTDWN

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« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2019, 06:26:24 PM »
The game needs more risk reward. Risk reward makes golf games immersive. End of story.
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leslie.sangster

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« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2019, 06:50:58 PM »
The risk hit a fast downswing with the associated draw the reward hit it over the flag and get enough backspin to pull the ball back to the flag.



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FRSTDWN

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« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2019, 08:14:40 PM »
I like your idea. I'm agreeing with you .

I really hope we get a real overswing in the next game. You know the old the harder you swing the further the ball goes concept.

I don't know about you guys but I don't swing 100 %  every swing when I play golf . I'm about 80 to 90 % . 80 mostly with longer clubs 90 % with irons. I only go 100 % when I have a reason for it. Like a wide open fairway or a buried lie.

A 100% swing should be very risky not the preferred shot.
RIP TIM AKA DIVOTMAKER YOU WILL BE MISSED!

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