reading greens when playing blind

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Leicester Duck

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« on: May 15, 2019, 04:51:55 AM »
Can anyone give me tips on reading the line of a put when playing with no help please?
Slower your swing down to a blur.

MagicShooz

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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2019, 05:26:04 PM »
Practice and repetition. I went from total TGC noob to a pretty competent no-assist player this year. Don't really have any tricks, just got better through playing.

I know that's boring. I really don't have any better advice. Some guys talk about looking at the putter head to see if it's level or something. I've read that some people scan the green with their cursor to find elevation change. That seems a bit like cheating, but whatever. I don't really do any of that. I just take long, hard looks at putts. If I can't see it with a front or back view, I'll absolutely walk that camera around and look at the green as a whole to get an idea of where it's going. They usually reveal themselves. Some you can spot right away. Some take a half-dozen looks for your brain to agree on a line.

Not sure how your pace is, but-- pace. If you're outside 20 feet, lag it. Just get it close. Tap in pars from outside 20. That's my goal. You can misread a line by 3 feet, but as long as you nail your speed, you've got a 3-foot tap in. I'll make the occasional bomb, but I'm usually waiting patiently until I dart a good iron in there to get my birdies. Outside of that? Lag. Avoid the three-putt at all costs.

If you're like me, you under-read the break a lot. Missing on the low side. Line up your putt and get set. Then bump it out another cup until you start missing on the high side of the cup. Just until your brain starts getting the idea of how much break is usually needed.

You probably know, but uphill putts will take less break as you power it up there. Downhill putts will take more break as you trickle it down.

If I see it breaking two different ways from behind the cup and behind the ball, that often means it's straight. If I can't talk myself into seeing one way from both angles, we're going right at it.

That's all I can think of. Keep at it. Be patient. Best of luck.

Leicester Duck

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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2019, 06:02:10 PM »
Thanks for the advice I am pritty good at pace its just the direction. I must admit I do enjoy playing this way and it seems to be a good leveler Dick Terpin has not been seen yet.
Slower your swing down to a blur.

Thrangar

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« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2019, 10:21:37 AM »
I occasionally play TST just to see what I can do and I usually choose the first place runner to ghost, I think it was Divot most of the times, I kept a count in my head of how many times he read the break wrong(I mean opposite breaks) quite often it was 30 % of the time...for me it was 50% or more....with the abysmal lighting in this game it just isnt doable at this time, so be ready for frustration!
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McBogga

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« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2019, 01:07:55 PM »
It’s a combination of factors. Real life green reading “hacks” work well in game as well, at least on RCRs

- Most greens are sloped back to front (to stop low approaches from high handicaps)

- Look for the lay of the land. If the land to the right is high and to the left is low, there is a pretty good chance that your putt will be right to left, and in either case being on a tilt will mess with your visual read

- read from multiple angles, behind ball, behind hole and from the side usually gets you a good idea.

- Swing around and look for the “fall line” - the angle where a putt would be straight uphill or downhill, the closer to the fall line you are the straighter the putt, and on severe breakers the ball will feed onto the fall line, so it’s a good way to visualise the putt. How to find the fall line? While swinging the camera you should have a point where it feels like there is “balance”. Takes a lot of no grid experience to get good at finding it, however. But really not much different in real golf. But it’s easier if you know what you are looking for and what it means when you find it.

One game specific thing is that it can help to Bob the camera up and down a bit to see more subtle breaks.

Green reading without grid is a fairly complex skill that requires a lot of practice, but IMO it’s the most rewarding way to play. Sinking a long breaker gives a similar feeling to draining one IRL. Also requires pace control as a six footer is not an automatic hole out without grids. Have been playing this way since TGC1 and I still occasionally misread putts.

McBogga

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« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2019, 01:10:29 PM »
I occasionally play TST just to see what I can do and I usually choose the first place runner to ghost, I think it was Divot most of the times, I kept a count in my head of how many times he read the break wrong(I mean opposite breaks) quite often it was 30 % of the time...for me it was 50% or more....with the abysmal lighting in this game it just isnt doable at this time, so be ready for frustration!

30% is very high for experienced no grid players, find that hard to believe. 10-15% is a more likely number. Top putters less than that. The main difficulty is not which way it breaks, but how much - just as in real golf.

MagicShooz

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« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2019, 01:49:16 PM »
I kept a count in my head of how many times he read the break wrong(I mean opposite breaks) quite often it was 30 % of the time...for me it was 50% or more....with the abysmal lighting in this game it just isnt doable at this time, so be ready for frustration!

30% is very high for experienced no grid players, find that hard to believe. 10-15% is a more likely number. Top putters less than that. The main difficulty is not which way it breaks, but how much - just as in real golf.

Came back to say the same thing. That sounded way out of whack yesterday, but I wanted to play last night to be sure I wasn't crazy.

Even 10-15% sounds high. That's 2 or 3 opposite-break misreads per round. No way it's that many. I don't want to give myself too much credit, but I rarely read a putt in the complete opposite direction. It definitely happens, but the great majority of the time I know which way it's going - it's just a matter of nailing speed with the line. Underestimating or over-reading the break? Absolutely. All day long. But wrong way altogether? I would venture to guess my average is less than 1 per round.


Thrangar

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« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2019, 03:11:01 PM »
I occasionally play TST just to see what I can do and I usually choose the first place runner to ghost, I think it was Divot most of the times, I kept a count in my head of how many times he read the break wrong(I mean opposite breaks) quite often it was 30 % of the time...for me it was 50% or more....with the abysmal lighting in this game it just isnt doable at this time, so be ready for frustration!

30% is very high for experienced no grid players, find that hard to believe. 10-15% is a more likely number. Top putters less than that. The main difficulty is not which way it breaks, but how much - just as in real golf.

Over all that is probably the truth, as I said I only play once every so many months and it was the case durring those episodes...your explaination and description is what he needed....it going to be a lot  of work, much more so than in real life!  just wanted him know what he is getting into

BTW I have never read a putt break wrong to the opposite in RL... and I still say fix the lighting in unity/this game and whole lot of wrongs can be made right!
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smokey

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« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2019, 03:42:20 PM »
Isn't there a setting where you can press one button and move to different green views quickly like going from behind the pin to a side view? I think you had to turn off scout cam or something like that to make them available but I don't remember for sure nor remember which button to press to switch views.

McBogga

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« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2019, 02:59:30 AM »
I occasionally play TST just to see what I can do and I usually choose the first place runner to ghost, I think it was Divot most of the times, I kept a count in my head of how many times he read the break wrong(I mean opposite breaks) quite often it was 30 % of the time...for me it was 50% or more....with the abysmal lighting in this game it just isnt doable at this time, so be ready for frustration!

30% is very high for experienced no grid players, find that hard to believe. 10-15% is a more likely number. Top putters less than that. The main difficulty is not which way it breaks, but how much - just as in real golf.

Over all that is probably the truth, as I said I only play once every so many months and it was the case durring those episodes...your explaination and description is what he needed....it going to be a lot  of work, much more so than in real life!  just wanted him know what he is getting into

BTW I have never read a putt break wrong to the opposite in RL... and I still say fix the lighting in unity/this game and whole lot of wrongs can be made right!

Do you play a lot of courses that you never played before?

It can happen when the architect has intentionally set the surroundings up to fool you so your eyes tell you one thing and your feet another.

Oswinner

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« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2019, 07:42:46 AM »
You’ve never misread a putt in real life Thanger? I find that hard to believe as even tour pros misread the odd putt and that’s with caddies helping them.

Anyway, I misread the odd putt but in general guess the correct way 90% of the time I should imagine. But I’ve had loads of practice as I haven’t had a green grid turned on since TGC1.

stan_solo

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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2019, 09:22:21 AM »
Green reading without grid is a fairly complex skill that requires a lot of practice, but IMO it’s the most rewarding way to play. 

Yup

Thrangar

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« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2019, 03:22:58 PM »
You’ve never misread a putt in real life Thanger? I find that hard to believe as even tour pros misread the odd putt and that’s with caddies helping them.

Anyway, I misread the odd putt but in general guess the correct way 90% of the time I should imagine. But I’ve had loads of practice as I haven’t had a green grid turned on since TGC1.

I did not say that, and I would find that hard to believe also
 @ Mc B...almost all TST courses are new to me...and if I had the ability to let my feet feel the slope it would definitley help..remember when we could sweep with the cursor !
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McBogga

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« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2019, 05:38:55 PM »
You’ve never misread a putt in real life Thanger? I find that hard to believe as even tour pros misread the odd putt and that’s with caddies helping them.

Anyway, I misread the odd putt but in general guess the correct way 90% of the time I should imagine. But I’ve had loads of practice as I haven’t had a green grid turned on since TGC1.

I did not say that, and I would find that hard to believe also
 @ Mc B...almost all TST courses are new to me...and if I had the ability to let my feet feel the slope it would definitley help..remember when we could sweep with the cursor !

That was an exploit that was covered up, luckily. Guaranteed read if you have the patience and time to “vacuum” the green with the marker - no thanks. It’s just a less efficient green grid, imo.  As a no grid training aid - it’s excellent, however.

I was talking about real golf. In TGC most courses are “new”, or at least I guess most people don’t play enough to memorise the greens.

FRSTDWN

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« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2019, 09:54:19 PM »
As said above it takes time and effort to learn how to play without grids. I played without since the tiger days but did turn them on briefly for tgc 1 then turned them off and never looked back.  I also almost always know which way it will break but either misjudge the line or the speed or both. It's like real golf for me in the fact sometimes it's like the matrix and I'm dropping putts with very little effort then other times I'm grinding to make anything.

There are many different ways to do it but basically all I do is read from in front of the hole and behind the hole and then pick my line. Then I look at the putter head and try and get a read from the angle of how it sits. Make any adjustments needed then go.

Once you get some confidence it is the most rewarding way to play. Just know it will leave you here and there. But that is golf.

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