I'd play without aids, but ...

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Bobalonola

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« on: August 30, 2019, 05:41:04 PM »
 ... there's a lack of real-world 'feedback' that the aids help make up for.  More power to gamers who can play unassisted, but, for example, the putting pointer shows no height difference for yards to either side of a pin on my line, yet there's a subtle break that I might have picked up on if I could actually walk the green. I have had more 5-inch or less tap-ins than I'd care to mention on 'short' putts when playing gridless, and on any greens worth their salt, the grid still needs a good reading to get a long putt to drop.

blueorfe

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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2019, 06:26:10 PM »
If you're just playing on your own you can have all the settings off, but leave the marker information on for putts.

Playing without the marker information I too miss way too many putts because of a subtle break that is impossible to see in this game without the information on the marker. If there was at least a free cam to use on the greens, then it wouldn't be as much of a guessing game.

I have argued this point over and over at the True Sim area of TGC Tours; but the hierarchy there are convinced that everybody can see said breaks and you just have to learn how to read them. They cannot understand that for some of us the putt either looks dead straight, or we believe that the putt will break in the opposite direction entirely. I hardly ever miss a short putt irl on the wrong side of the hole, I miss more than my fair share, but usually because of an over or under read; not because I'm completely fooled as to which way it might break.

As you said, in real life you can walk the green to get a feel for the break: without any information it just becomes a guessing game and favors players who just smash putts in at pace to take out any break the might be there. 
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DaveT

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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2019, 07:22:28 AM »
I agree on the putting front ... I've tried playing without grids but I just can't see the slope of the greens unless its a yellow/red big slope.

I can't see a computer game ever being able to replicate this without grids, no matter how good the graphics are.  Case in point, when I watch real golf on TV I often can't see the slope or break on a green.  For the subtle slopes and breaks I think its something you really need to be there for.  Maybe VR will crack it in years to come maybe ...
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jeffield

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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2019, 08:43:09 AM »
Disagree with your points here.  I play no marker so
A) the putts can travel the true distance of your swing and not be auto shortened by the marker power reducing  influence.   this way if i overgauge my putt and the green breaks away from the hole I get the true (real life experience of the putt on that slope and not a power limiting marker influence. 
   As for reading the greens, that's why ( if you have the scout cam set to off)  You have a green reading cam.  This camera gets all the way down eye level with the ball or as high as you want it to go and circles the flag. So you can use it to get that walking the green effect.  The greens are readable without the grids.  If there is a little dip right before the hole you will see it with this putting camera.  But again if you don't play with scout cam off you don't have access to it.
 This being said,  you can't just rush thru your putts with the grids off.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 08:46:37 AM by jeffield »
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Martbloke

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« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2019, 09:14:25 AM »
I agree on the putting front ... I've tried playing without grids but I just can't see the slope of the greens unless its a yellow/red big slope.

I can't see a computer game ever being able to replicate this without grids, no matter how good the graphics are.  Case in point, when I watch real golf on TV I often can't see the slope or break on a green.  For the subtle slopes and breaks I think its something you really need to be there for.  Maybe VR will crack it in years to come maybe ...

Not true. This version is absolutely fine for no grids as many will attest to. It takes time and patience at first when using the putting cams (like Jeff says above), but you can definitely see the slopes in this game. I now don't need longer than about 10 secs if that to see which way the putt will go. Admittedly there are putts where I just don't see the slope and it's these that are pretty much no slope it turns out to be but this is also true of real life.

The biggest thing I think is required for no grids is knowing your power to distances. If you know that you will hit the distance of the putt pretty much spot on each time, you will virtually give yourself 2 putts every time as you'll only be 2-4 ft away for your 2nd putt no matter what. You'll then just take time to take in the results of your putting and then start seeing where the slopes are and before you know it, you'll be making birdies.

E when you start playing this was is a decent enough score. If you are expecting to smash the course -10 or better each round like you probably would with grids on, then no grids is not for you as that is an unrealistic view IMO and you will get frustrated and hate it. Don't get me wrong some people are that good to do that and I would hazard a guess that this is mainly due to their approaches being close to the hole rather than consistently sinking 10-20ft putts.

Bobalonola

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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2019, 01:03:05 PM »
Actually the 'pin marker' is fine for alignment, but it really seems to make little difference in how 'hard' a putt is hit. IIRC, this was explained somewhere else, but moving the marker's distance doesn't affect the 'stick or mouse' distance you need for any length. Tricky placement on a slope aside, lag putting is a breeze in this game ... distance-wise.

As for the grid, maybe it's a lack of visual acuity on my part (after all, I wear glasses for distance AND reading). Or perhaps my screen is shabby or not in an optimal lighting position. Possibly, I just suck, and some of you unsympathetic responders are just far superior players ... learning to read computer-game greens is relatively low on this old man's priorities, TBH.

liquidsnake000

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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2019, 04:32:01 AM »
Disagree with your points here.  I play no marker so
A) the putts can travel the true distance of your swing and not be auto shortened by the marker power reducing  influence.   this way if i overgauge my putt and the green breaks away from the hole I get the true (real life experience of the putt on that slope and not a power limiting marker influence. 
   As for reading the greens, that's why ( if you have the scout cam set to off)  You have a green reading cam.  This camera gets all the way down eye level with the ball or as high as you want it to go and circles the flag. So you can use it to get that walking the green effect.  The greens are readable without the grids.  If there is a little dip right before the hole you will see it with this putting camera.  But again if you don't play with scout cam off you don't have access to it.
 This being said,  you can't just rush thru your putts with the grids off.
I never knew that about the scouting cam and the green reading cam for putting being tied in, that's absolutely ridiculous, I play without green grids on but have to have scout cam on, and I've always wondered why the camera never went close enough to the hole to read up close, why can't you just have a fully customised game to suit each individuals gameplay. you should be able to have one without the other.
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neilwilkes

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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2019, 06:54:52 AM »
The one thing that is stopping me switching the grid off is the abysmal lack of information on the overhead Green Maps.
For how the maps should look in the game, please see http://www.strokesaver.co.uk/royal-birkdale-2017-open and scroll through to the holes where you will see a proper green map & fairway chart. As an example, when playing yesterday on Shadow Creek, one of the 4 distances given off the tee was one in the middle of a load of water, another at around 110 yards from the tee (why? what is the point?) and 2 more, neither of which was any use whatsoever.
Moving to the greens, there is absolutely no hint whatsoever of the breaks, slopes & plateaus or false fronts etc once the grid is off, so how in blazes am I supposed to know where to hit the ball so in an ideal situation (with a good shot) I end up below the hole?

Decent maps would make all the difference in the world for me.

Martbloke

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« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2019, 12:54:14 PM »
The one thing that is stopping me switching the grid off is the abysmal lack of information on the overhead Green Maps.
For how the maps should look in the game, please see http://www.strokesaver.co.uk/royal-birkdale-2017-open and scroll through to the holes where you will see a proper green map & fairway chart. As an example, when playing yesterday on Shadow Creek, one of the 4 distances given off the tee was one in the middle of a load of water, another at around 110 yards from the tee (why? what is the point?) and 2 more, neither of which was any use whatsoever.
Moving to the greens, there is absolutely no hint whatsoever of the breaks, slopes & plateaus or false fronts etc once the grid is off, so how in blazes am I supposed to know where to hit the ball so in an ideal situation (with a good shot) I end up below the hole?

Decent maps would make all the difference in the world for me.

I agree.

Perhaps they could update the cameras so the putting cams are not linked to the scout cam and then you can use the scout cam option where it zooms only to the green to see the green better without giving away your landing spot. Only reason we can't have this atm is you lose the cameras necessary to putt when scout cam is active!

Of course make this an option that can be locked for societies too. I'm sure no-one would have an issue in zooming to green for surveying the green slopes in TST mode playing societies??

Like to say that I only suggested the scout cam fix as when looking at the maps or overview, at times you just don't know where you in relation to the green when switching to the green view in the map. At times it rotates your view so I just get lost.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 12:58:11 PM by Martbloke »

less than bread

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« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2019, 05:59:39 PM »
You can also see the break direction right by your ball as your putter will sit at the angle of the slope (not to say it won't break back the other way but just how the putt will start). It is very tricky to putt with no green grid but practice practice practice and you can get pretty good at it. There's guys who consistently still shoot under par without aids. Just takes experience
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« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2019, 12:28:28 AM »
And the pin will lean in the direction the cup is tilted.  There could be slope the other way before the hole, but the tilt of the pin gives a good indication of what the ball will do right at the hole.

jeffield

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« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2019, 05:41:36 AM »
And the pin will lean in the direction the cup is tilted.  There could be slope the other way before the hole, but the tilt of the pin gives a good indication of what the ball will do right at the hole.
 

Interesting.  I never noticed that.   I do know (with scout cam off), when youre using the green read csm down very low you can see the tilt of the cup
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jeffbdvs

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« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2019, 05:22:22 PM »
The one thing that is stopping me switching the grid off is the abysmal lack of information on the overhead Green Maps.
For how the maps should look in the game, please see http://www.strokesaver.co.uk/royal-birkdale-2017-open and scroll through to the holes where you will see a proper green map & fairway chart. As an example, when playing yesterday on Shadow Creek, one of the 4 distances given off the tee was one in the middle of a load of water, another at around 110 yards from the tee (why? what is the point?) and 2 more, neither of which was any use whatsoever.
Moving to the greens, there is absolutely no hint whatsoever of the breaks, slopes & plateaus or false fronts etc once the grid is off, so how in blazes am I supposed to know where to hit the ball so in an ideal situation (with a good shot) I end up below the hole?

Decent maps would make all the difference in the world for me.
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jeffield

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« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2019, 07:38:03 PM »
Disagree with your points here.  I play no marker so
A) the putts can travel the true distance of your swing and not be auto shortened by the marker power reducing  influence.   this way if i overgauge my putt and the green breaks away from the hole I get the true (real life experience of the putt on that slope and not a power limiting marker influence. 
   As for reading the greens, that's why ( if you have the scout cam set to off)  You have a green reading cam.  This camera gets all the way down eye level with the ball or as high as you want it to go and circles the flag. So you can use it to get that walking the green effect.  The greens are readable without the grids.  If there is a little dip right before the hole you will see it with this putting camera.  But again if you don't play with scout cam off you don't have access to it.
 This being said,  you can't just rush thru your putts with the grids off.
I never knew that about the scouting cam and the green reading cam for putting being tied in, that's absolutely ridiculous, I play without green grids on but have to have scout cam on, and I've always wondered why the camera never went close enough to the hole to read up close, why can't you just have a fully customised game to suit each individuals gameplay. you should be able to have one without the other.
  I dont know why, unless its some kind of penalty to even out the advantage of the scout cam but, with grids on you dont really need the putting camera anyway, correct? 
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Legends- Moorland Course
#37 Toughest Course in U.S.- Golf Digest
Americas top courses '03 & '09

 

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