To the developers:

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TheDenis1951

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« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2020, 06:03:43 PM »
I see one thing I failed to mention that someone brought up, the short swing. I usually refer to this as a 3/4 swing. I'm surprised that is not an option in this game. The best way to implement this into the game would be to just have the option to select a 3/4 swing. That way you can use the full movement of the stick and get a shorter carry than a full swing. I found a 3/4 swing useful in the real game because of less swing sped and it rolls more because less spin on the ball. Works better than a pitch because a pitch shot you are actually swinging fast to put spin on the ball to stop it quicker. Which brings me to another point I made earlier about golf balls. This game needs to give a choice of what kind of ball to use, as all balls are not the same. Balls like a urethane cover ball will have better spin rates and will stop quicker on a green than an ionomer cover ball. 2 piece balls do not react the same as three and four piece balls. We need a selection for different lofts on drivers.

TheDenis1951

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« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2020, 06:18:59 PM »
RockManDan said: "It sounds like TheDenis needs to design us some courses being he is such The Expert......."

So by your logic Jim Nantz needs to play football to be able to announce the games? Sports writers who never played professional football, baseball, basketball, or hockey shouldn't be criticizing the players and teams because they never played pro sports?
But, FYI, if I took the time to design a course, I have the knowledge to create one going by the basic guidelines set by course designers like Pete Dye, Robert Trent Jones, and even Jack Nicklaus who has designed a course or 2. In the HB Studios official courses they created for this game, there are major flaws in the set up of courses. Holes placed on steep grades that go against USGA guidelines, creating very long holes that sometimes cannot be reached in regulation because they go uphill and when the wind is strong, it is impossible to make the green in regulation. Placement of bunkers is ridiculous on some courses. Bunkers should be placed to challenge a player in a risk/reward situation, not to force a player to use pinpoint accuracy on a normal drive. You want to challenge a player that wants to accept a challenge to make a shot that not every player would take. Some of the HB designers seem to think that designing a course is a lot like setting up a miniature golf course complete with hazards intentionally placed to make the course difficult and not challenging. Common sense can dictate a better set up on courses than just throwing in 100 bunkers, narrow fairways, and greens sloped so that a normal shot won't hold it. Many of their greens are ridiculous in a sense that if you hit a long iron to the green, you cannot have enough room to hold the green. That goes against every rule of designing a course.

Cathalos1991

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« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2020, 06:55:42 PM »
RockManDan said: "It sounds like TheDenis needs to design us some courses being he is such The Expert......."

So by your logic Jim Nantz needs to play football to be able to announce the games? Sports writers who never played professional football, baseball, basketball, or hockey shouldn't be criticizing the players and teams because they never played pro sports?
But, FYI, if I took the time to design a course, I have the knowledge to create one going by the basic guidelines set by course designers like Pete Dye, Robert Trent Jones, and even Jack Nicklaus who has designed a course or 2. In the HB Studios official courses they created for this game, there are major flaws in the set up of courses. Holes placed on steep grades that go against USGA guidelines, creating very long holes that sometimes cannot be reached in regulation because they go uphill and when the wind is strong, it is impossible to make the green in regulation. Placement of bunkers is ridiculous on some courses. Bunkers should be placed to challenge a player in a risk/reward situation, not to force a player to use pinpoint accuracy on a normal drive. You want to challenge a player that wants to accept a challenge to make a shot that not every player would take. Some of the HB designers seem to think that designing a course is a lot like setting up a miniature golf course complete with hazards intentionally placed to make the course difficult and not challenging. Common sense can dictate a better set up on courses than just throwing in 100 bunkers, narrow fairways, and greens sloped so that a normal shot won't hold it. Many of their greens are ridiculous in a sense that if you hit a long iron to the green, you cannot have enough room to hold the green. That goes against every rule of designing a course.
It's a video game, if you want to play a game course that adheres to all your critiques then either design a course yourself or grab your golf clubs and play a game.

Golf, as I'm sure you are well aware, is an incredibly complicated sport with far too many variables to consider. Do I honestly think it's feasible to perfectly translate the game of golf with all it's perfect imperfections to a video game for a company to sell at a reasonable price and still make it profitable? No, I don't.

This game has players of all levels and from time to time a designer will attempt to protect it's course from those who have the skill to essentially "burn it up". You may deem it non-conforming, I say, if the pin has no yellow or red lines within the 3x3 grid of which the pin is located then it's fine by me.

While on the topic of USGA guidelines, surely you've witnessed the crazy setups they have produced for US Opens where shots with mid irons don't hold the greens, where putts can barely hold the greens.
Those guys are the top tier of professionals in the world, this is a video game.

I'm sure I can agree with some of the points you have made with half swings, 3/4 swings, maybe even having the ability to choke down the grip or choose the place where you get to tee up your golf ball would be a great asset. But on the flip side, I honestly feel there are enough club options and shot types to enable you to cover all distances and play a decent round.

I do respect your wishes to want to be able to try up a ball in TGC2019 and play like you would in real life. But if this game were to capture how we all play in real life it would never sell. Not everyone wants to shoot +20 in real life and then turn on their console and do the same thing at home in their sitting room.

My honest advice, zero offence intended, but you are best off trying to get better at the game or not playing it at all, because I'm my own opinion, what you are asking for is not feasible. Golf games in general are a rare find, don't need companies going bust trying to take one of the most complicated sports and translating all aspects of it to a video game.

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AndersNM

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« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2020, 07:08:59 PM »
I see one thing I failed to mention that someone brought up, the short swing. I usually refer to this as a 3/4 swing. I'm surprised that is not an option in this game. The best way to implement this into the game would be to just have the option to select a 3/4 swing. That way you can use the full movement of the stick and get a shorter carry than a full swing. I found a 3/4 swing useful in the real game because of less swing sped and it rolls more because less spin on the ball. Works better than a pitch because a pitch shot you are actually swinging fast to put spin on the ball to stop it quicker. Which brings me to another point I made earlier about golf balls. This game needs to give a choice of what kind of ball to use, as all balls are not the same. Balls like a urethane cover ball will have better spin rates and will stop quicker on a green than an ionomer cover ball. 2 piece balls do not react the same as three and four piece balls. We need a selection for different lofts on drivers.

There are partial shots in the game. You stop your swing short and you get 95%, 90%, 85% etc etc.
I do not agree at all that we need any more "dial in a distance" - we need less. So I would rather not see an option to choose 3/4 swing etc, but that you have to do it yourself and watch the golfer animation to get it right. There might be a need for a aid with a visual bar for the casual gamer that shows how far in the backswing you are.

As for balls - I like to have different balls to choose from, but I would never for a second think that anyone would choose a non premium ball in a game like this. So for me, there are other areas that are way more important to fix than different clubs and balls - like the drop rules and lack of hazards for example.

I think you point very well out what is the problem with fantasy courses, but I believe that HB did not make the official courses that are fictional, but choose to make some designers courses official. This is okay, but problem is that you are forced to play these or skip the majority of the PGA mode - which could have been solved with an option to customize.

RockManDan

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« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2020, 09:13:19 PM »
Every golf course plays differently.  There is no “One size fits all”.  Different people want different things in a golf video game.
Some like only Fantasy Courses, Some like only RCRs, Some like LiDAR, some don’t.  Not every real life course strictly follows course design guidelines or rules.
This is part of the greatness of the game.  Every game is different,  Every course is, or should be an experience unto itself.  Each should have its own quirks and challenges to discover and master.  This is what makes the game fun
The reason that TGC is the success that it is is exactly because it allows for limitless possibilities.
As a designer I describe my creations as “Realistic Fantasy” style courses.  They don’t really exist, but they could.  No matter how a course is designed someone will have different ideas as to how things could have been done differently.  I play other people’s courses and think to myself all the time how I might have done something differently.  But I can still appreciate their creation if they put the effort in to make it something good.
That’s why I suggested you should try designing some courses of your own.  You could make them the way that you want and have some courses that you like to play.  Other people might not like them.... but who cares?  As long as you do.
There are literally thousands of designers out here.  Keep trying different peoples work an eventually you’ll find some who create the type of course you like.  You’re not going to influence designers to make courses to the standards which you dictate......  that’s just not going to happen.
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RichLP68

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« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2020, 09:39:05 PM »
RockManDan said: "It sounds like TheDenis needs to design us some courses being he is such The Expert......."

So by your logic Jim Nantz needs to play football to be able to announce the games? Sports writers who never played professional football, baseball, basketball, or hockey shouldn't be criticizing the players and teams because they never played pro sports?
But, FYI, if I took the time to design a course, I have the knowledge to create one going by the basic guidelines set by course designers like Pete Dye, Robert Trent Jones, and even Jack Nicklaus who has designed a course or 2. In the HB Studios official courses they created for this game, there are major flaws in the set up of courses. Holes placed on steep grades that go against USGA guidelines, creating very long holes that sometimes cannot be reached in regulation because they go uphill and when the wind is strong, it is impossible to make the green in regulation. Placement of bunkers is ridiculous on some courses. Bunkers should be placed to challenge a player in a risk/reward situation, not to force a player to use pinpoint accuracy on a normal drive. You want to challenge a player that wants to accept a challenge to make a shot that not every player would take. Some of the HB designers seem to think that designing a course is a lot like setting up a miniature golf course complete with hazards intentionally placed to make the course difficult and not challenging. Common sense can dictate a better set up on courses than just throwing in 100 bunkers, narrow fairways, and greens sloped so that a normal shot won't hold it. Many of their greens are ridiculous in a sense that if you hit a long iron to the green, you cannot have enough room to hold the green. That goes against every rule of designing a course.
It's a video game, if you want to play a game course that adheres to all your critiques then either design a course yourself or grab your golf clubs and play a game.

Golf, as I'm sure you are well aware, is an incredibly complicated sport with far too many variables to consider. Do I honestly think it's feasible to perfectly translate the game of golf with all it's perfect imperfections to a video game for a company to sell at a reasonable price and still make it profitable? No, I don't.

This game has players of all levels and from time to time a designer will attempt to protect it's course from those who have the skill to essentially "burn it up". You may deem it non-conforming, I say, if the pin has no yellow or red lines within the 3x3 grid of which the pin is located then it's fine by me.

While on the topic of USGA guidelines, surely you've witnessed the crazy setups they have produced for US Opens where shots with mid irons don't hold the greens, where putts can barely hold the greens.
Those guys are the top tier of professionals in the world, this is a video game.

I'm sure I can agree with some of the points you have made with half swings, 3/4 swings, maybe even having the ability to choke down the grip or choose the place where you get to tee up your golf ball would be a great asset. But on the flip side, I honestly feel there are enough club options and shot types to enable you to cover all distances and play a decent round.

I do respect your wishes to want to be able to try up a ball in TGC2019 and play like you would in real life. But if this game were to capture how we all play in real life it would never sell. Not everyone wants to shoot +20 in real life and then turn on their console and do the same thing at home in their sitting room.

My honest advice, zero offence intended, but you are best off trying to get better at the game or not playing it at all, because I'm my own opinion, what you are asking for is not feasible. Golf games in general are a rare find, don't need companies going bust trying to take one of the most complicated sports and translating all aspects of it to a video game.

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I'd KILL to shoot +20 in real life...

RichLP68

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« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2020, 09:51:43 PM »
I flippantly mentioned Augusta National to the OP as an example of a course, perhaps the most famous and respected course in the world, that has ALL the features he decries in TGC2019 designers' courses. 

Nearly impossible to reach pins, with little to no stopping distance, on sloped greens that can be as slick as glass, where missed putts can roll 20 yards off the green.

Strategic bunkers forcing tight shots, blind corners and uphill shots, water hazards with swirling winds that defy logic.

Now, of course very few TGC designed courses are Augusta Nationals, but designers like Cathalos, and Dan, and many others put in literally hundreds of hours to simulate a challenging, realistic to semi-realistic golf course within the constraints of the game.

The game has many flaws, and much room to improve, but user designed courses are one of the blessings of this game, and keep it fresh an playable to those of us who have spent years playing it.

RockManDan

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« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2020, 10:08:17 PM »
Thanks Rich
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kgboomer

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« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2020, 04:15:51 PM »
...what was afforded with the timeline and budget of the project.

This pretty much confirm everything I thought.  Once the budget is gone for the game, no more updates, that's it. And now waiting for sufficient $ in the budget to make another game with enough added content. It could take a while, there's also other projects going on. 

 

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