Poll

Which reasonably achievable "option" do you most want for 2K21 on the Series X

60 Hz Vsync lock
0 (0%)
Unlocked Vsync
4 (57.1%)
Variable Refresh Rate (VRR)
2 (28.6%)
Leave options just as they are for XBox One /S /X
1 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 7

Voting closes: November 16, 2020, 11:53:47 AM

XBox Series X version "perks" for PGA TOUR 2K21

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ISAWTHAT

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« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2020, 03:23:30 PM »
Hb needs to get out of 2010, especially with 2K on board.  Regardless of if you're running 4K or 2K the animations and the characters should be animated better than they are along with far more detail.  That goes without saying frame rate boost.
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ISAWTHAT

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« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2020, 03:28:35 PM »
This is what we need, as options on all console next gen games.  Awesome!!!

https://youtu.be/CF9A935XFkU

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jcauthen04

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« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2020, 03:42:16 PM »
This is what we need, as options on all console next gen games.  Awesome!!!

https://youtu.be/CF9A935XFkU

Yep, starting with PGA TOUR 2K23!
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jcauthen04

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« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2020, 03:47:24 PM »
Hb needs to get out of 2010, especially with 2K on board.  Regardless of if you're running 4K or 2K the animations and the characters should be animated better than they are along with far more detail.  That goes without saying frame rate boost.

2K already uses the Eco-Motion engine in NBA 2K20.  Maybe they could put HB Studios onto it.  You're right though, the golfer models in this game aren't up to the artistic standards of the environment around them.
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jcauthen04

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« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2020, 03:50:29 PM »
Get them while they're hot I've seen this monitor on eBay newegg and Walmart for around $400,. Amazon $299

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07MQBPMJ2/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8

Also supports HDR@ 400nits, 360nits native,two HDMI 2.0 ( The 2.0 will carry 48 to 144hz,1.4 display port, 4 USB 3.0. On and on. Comes with Calibrated certificate out of the box as well.

Not a bad price at all for something of that caliber!  I don't have a spot in my house that would lend itself to something like that, and I've kind of gotten spoiled by gaming on my 55" HDTV from the recliner.
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ISAWTHAT

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« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2020, 09:28:35 AM »
JC, does this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhniqRQqafQ  @ around the 3:20 mark to the end of video, need HB to even patch this game to run at higher resolution and FPS?  If I'm reading this video correctly, it seems that Microsoft has built in the ability on both the Series X/S to boost performance on XB1 titles to run more optimally.  Let me know your thoughts. 

BTW monitor arrived :)
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 10:40:55 AM by ISAWTHAT »
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jcauthen04

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« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2020, 12:21:10 PM »
JC, does this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhniqRQqafQ  @ around the 3:20 mark to the end of video, need HB to even patch this game to run at higher resolution and FPS?  If I'm reading this video correctly, it seems that Microsoft has built in the ability on both the Series X/S to boost performance on XB1 titles to run more optimally.  Let me know your thoughts. 

What a fantastic video you've linked there!  Starting at the 3:20 point, they're reading a lot, word for word, from this article that was posted at XBox.com:

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/10/13/xbox-series-x-and-xbox-series-s-backward-compatibility-update/

On the surface, it sounds like the XBox Series X and S hardware can take anything and boost its performance up to the point of doubling its frame rate.  OTOH, they also throw a lot of conditional statements in with it to make it sound more like a case by case basis, depending on the game and how much involvement its developer might have in the BC process.

Here's a snip from the article I linked that would take a Philadelphia lawyer to parse:

"In addition however, the backward compatibility team has developed new methods for effectively doubling the framerate on select titles."

There are two things that stand out to me in this statement (which was also read in the clip you linked):

1.) Microsoft has a backward compatibility team that targets "select titles".

2.) Microsoft's backward compatibility team can make doubled frame rates happen using "new methods". Who decides what these "select titles" are and do these "new methods" require ANY involvement by the game's developers to accomplish doubled frame rates?

The article goes on to get even more steeped in conditionality with this:

"While not applicable for many titles due to the game’s original physics or animations, these new techniques the team has developed can push game engines to render more quickly for a buttery smooth experience beyond what the original game might have delivered due to the capabilities of the hardware." 

At first glance, the condition I underlined "game's original physics or animations" struck me as a reason PGA TOUR 2K21 might not lend itself to frame rate boosting or doubling.  I then got to thinking about how the PC version works.  It can have its vsync turned off, or set to 30 or 60 Hz, and run the game at 25 to 80 FPS (depending on how I have the resolution and graphics details set), without adversely affecting the physics or animations at all.  The XBox One X version of this game is in essence the PC version with fewer options in the graphics and resolution setting menu; why not just put a few of these options back into the Series X version of the game?

I can't imagine that PGA TOUR 2K21 would be one of the "select games" on Microsoft's backwards compatibility team's target list, but if it comes down to just providing an encoder switch that somehow bypasses at 30 FPS lock, I'd have to think they'd make it happen.

Realistically, I'd think HB Studios/2K would be willing to make the changes necessary on their end for the game to run at 60 FPS on the Series X.  I think it would also behoove them to add VRR support.  To they layman, neither of these sound like they'd be all that daunting a task.  It would certainly make the game more attractive to Series X owners who are going to be starved for Series X native games out of the gate.  Maybe one of the devs will weigh in here and set us straight on this?  :)

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BTW monitor arrived :)

You dawg!  Have you had a chance to test it out? 

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ISAWTHAT

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« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2020, 04:25:23 PM »
JC, does this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhniqRQqafQ  @ around the 3:20 mark to the end of video, need HB to even patch this game to run at higher resolution and FPS?  If I'm reading this video correctly, it seems that Microsoft has built in the ability on both the Series X/S to boost performance on XB1 titles to run more optimally.  Let me know your thoughts. 

What a fantastic video you've linked there!  Starting at the 3:20 point, they're reading a lot, word for word, from this article that was posted at XBox.com:

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/10/13/xbox-series-x-and-xbox-series-s-backward-compatibility-update/

On the surface, it sounds like the XBox Series X and S hardware can take anything and boost its performance up to the point of doubling its frame rate.  OTOH, they also throw a lot of conditional statements in with it to make it sound more like a case by case basis, depending on the game and how much involvement its developer might have in the BC process.

Here's a snip from the article I linked that would take a Philadelphia lawyer to parse:

"In addition however, the backward compatibility team has developed new methods for effectively doubling the framerate on select titles."

There are two things that stand out to me in this statement (which was also read in the clip you linked):

1.) Microsoft has a backward compatibility team that targets "select titles".

2.) Microsoft's backward compatibility team can make doubled frame rates happen using "new methods". Who decides what these "select titles" are and do these "new methods" require ANY involvement by the game's developers to accomplish doubled frame rates?

The article goes on to get even more steeped in conditionality with this:

"While not applicable for many titles due to the game’s original physics or animations, these new techniques the team has developed can push game engines to render more quickly for a buttery smooth experience beyond what the original game might have delivered due to the capabilities of the hardware." 

At first glance, the condition I underlined "game's original physics or animations" struck me as a reason PGA TOUR 2K21 might not lend itself to frame rate boosting or doubling.  I then got to thinking about how the PC version works.  It can have its vsync turned off, or set to 30 or 60 Hz, and run the game at 25 to 80 FPS (depending on how I have the resolution and graphics details set), without adversely affecting the physics or animations at all.  The XBox One X version of this game is in essence the PC version with fewer options in the graphics and resolution setting menu; why not just put a few of these options back into the Series X version of the game?

I can't imagine that PGA TOUR 2K21 would be one of the "select games" on Microsoft's backwards compatibility team's target list, but if it comes down to just providing an encoder switch that somehow bypasses at 30 FPS lock, I'd have to think they'd make it happen.

Realistically, I'd think HB Studios/2K would be willing to make the changes necessary on their end for the game to run at 60 FPS on the Series X.  I think it would also behoove them to add VRR support.  To they layman, neither of these sound like they'd be all that daunting a task.  It would certainly make the game more attractive to Series X owners who are going to be starved for Series X native games out of the gate.  Maybe one of the devs will weigh in here and set us straight on this?  :)

Quote
BTW monitor arrived :)

You dawg!  Have you had a chance to test it out?

Thanks for viewing the video.  Yes I do agree it says select titles and AAA titles I'm guessing, but it seems like it wouldn't take much for HB to unlock everything to get a boost in resolution and frames per second. I hope they decide to do that prior or just after the release of the new hardware.  However, without any involvement by HB I still think the game is going to run smoother and look better with more detail on the new hardware.  They need to pull a Dirt 5 video settings adjustment capabilities. 

The monitor;  No, I just opened the top of the box to let it breathe haha.  I did take  a look at the sheet of paper ( which was right on top), which shows the calibration and settings and testing results for my particular monitor, pretty cool.  I may be setting it up later today.

I just want 1440p at a solid 60fps for now. ::)
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jcauthen04

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« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2020, 11:41:18 AM »
Thanks for viewing the video.  Yes I do agree it says select titles and AAA titles I'm guessing, but it seems like it wouldn't take much for HB to unlock everything to get a boost in resolution and frames per second.

I just watched another Digital Foundry video concerning backward compatibility. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oe1LUJyCCs&t=1229s&ab_channel=DigitalFoundry  At the 15 minute mark, Richard Leadbetter makes the statement "I want to stress again that it's titles that have unlocked frame rate options, or no frame rate cap at all that benefit most."  I'm pretty sure that PGA TOUR 2K21 runs at a locked 30 FPS.  This is what's making me think that it's going to take some involvement from HB Studios to unlock it and allow the Series X to run it at a higher frame rate.

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I hope they decide to do that prior or just after the release of the new hardware.  However, without any involvement by HB I still think the game is going to run smoother and look better with more detail on the new hardware.  They need to pull a Dirt 5 video settings adjustment capabilities.

At some point elsewhere in the video I linked, Richard Leadbetter said that the Series X has the capability of overriding resolution and frame rates at the system level.  I would imagine this would be on blockbuster, AAA games, however.  I just can't see Microsoft directing the efforts of the backward compatibility team to force unlocked frame rates for 2K21. 

All that HB Studios has said on the record concerning this comes from the Reddit PGA Tour 2K sub forum, where the question of backward compatibility for 2K21 on next gen consoles was answered thusly:

"Beginning with the next-gen consoles, HB Studios will not release a "bespoke" version of PGA Tour 2K21 for the PS5 and Xbox Series X. However, like thousands of other games on both platforms, PGA Tour 2K21 will play on PS5 and Xbox Series X through backwards compatibility, HB said." 

That makes it sound like it's going to be a minimalistic, backward compatibility as is on the surface.  Then again they may not have wanted to write too big a check on the scope of backward compatibility back in early August.  I'm thinking we've got at least one more update in the pipeline for 2K21, why not make the 'frame rate unlocked on Series X' option a part of it?

Quote
The monitor;  No, I just opened the top of the box to let it breathe haha.  I did take  a look at the sheet of paper ( which was right on top), which shows the calibration and settings and testing results for my particular monitor, pretty cool.  I may be setting it up later today.

I just want 1440p at a solid 60fps for now. ::)

What are you going to connect it to in the meanwhile?  I'm anxious to read your reactions to how it works on something that actually supports variable refresh rates.
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ISAWTHAT

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« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2020, 04:21:32 PM »
Thanks for the video JC I did watch it I think I've seen that one before. Yes it may take some involvement by HB to get the game unlocked. Now I don't claim to be any game developer engineer, but listening to what I have over the course of the last two or three weeks to certain videos and people that have knowledge beyond mine it seems like it would be a simple patch?  What would be the cost of doing that?, from when I've heard and read it seems like it wouldn't cost much.  The question is will HB along with 2K do it to be compatible with this next-gen hardware.  Otherwise they're going to be left behind with a 1080p 30fps game.

Right now I don't have anything that's going to tap into the capabilities of my new monitor so I will have to wait till I get a strong enough GPU such as the new Xbox hardware, to get to see how the monitor reacts at its full potential.
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jcauthen04

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« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2020, 12:14:37 PM »
Digital Foundry published an informative video yesterday concerning backward compatibility.  It has some sobering details that suggests to me that unless HB Studios makes some code changes to the game, or Microsoft's backward compatibility team intercedes on the encoder side, 2K21 will very likely be limited to 30 FPS on the Series X.

For example, they showed Batman Return to Arkham, which was locked at 30 FPS.  In a side by side with the One X version, it doesn't dip below 30 FPS, like the One X version occasionally does.  Richard Leadbetter says here that it would take code changes from the developer or Microsoft to get around this.

Digital Foundry's Richard Leadbetter only found one game that has an unlocked vsync to test, Rainbow Six Siege.  It was running at 120 to 130 FPS, amid the screen tearing which Richard pointed out, and that I honestly couldn't detect.  I was surprised to hear Richard say that Rainbow Six Siege is the only XBox One game he knows of that has an unlocked vsync option ???  It even has its own, custom in-game frame rate counter.  That would be a cool feature for PGA TOUR 2K21, don't you think :D  It might help trigger some interesting discussions 8)

Here's a link to the video and it's well worth a watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsQldhmN5XU&ab_channel=DigitalFoundry
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 05:24:58 PM by jcauthen04 »
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FRSTDWN

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« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2020, 03:01:08 PM »
The way things have been going they will probably unlock it for the SX and not tell anyone .
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jcauthen04

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« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2020, 05:29:16 PM »
The way things have been going they will probably unlock it for the SX and not tell anyone .

That would not surprise me in the least, but I would welcome it.  They wouldn't have to tell anyone once I got wind of it having happened! ;D  To your point though, they do seem to have some sort of aversion to discussing resolutions and frame rates as they relate to this series ???
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 09:56:44 PM by jcauthen04 »
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« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2020, 08:09:16 PM »
Wish you got the pre order JC. You would be the best guy to give us feedback.
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jcauthen04

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« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2020, 10:46:23 PM »
Wish you got the pre order JC. You would be the best guy to give us feedback.

I've got my irons in a number of different fires right now, trying to buy one at retail price, but as the days go on, it's looking less and less likely I'll get one... at least on launch day.
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