Approach shot roll - Way too much

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JoeyBaconBits

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« on: November 09, 2014, 11:07:59 AM »
I love this game, EXCEPT for the amount of roll approach shots get on some greens. I understand that the faster greens are going to have more roll, but some of these greens are flat out ridiculous. It seems like the ball has to roll on to the fringe or into the rough no matter where my approach shot lands or how much loft I put on the shot. Chips also seem to roll forever. I'm all for more challenging greens, but the roll has to be toned down on the more difficult ones. I just hit an approach that bounced on the fairway twice before hitting the green, and it still managed to roll across the entire surface and into the back rough. C'mon man!

SassyLady

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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2014, 11:24:30 AM »
Chips do indeed seem to roll forever. The solution to that is to apply some serious loft. Make it a bump and run. But there is a fine line. I've done it where I got way too much bump and not near enough run.

As for the approach shots, On medium fast and fast greens, they do seem to roll excessively. Such a green is slick as greased glass. And the real problem is if you put too much loft on it, it stops way short of the hole and if you don't put enough loft on it, it rolls way past the cup and often times even off the green as stated in the original post. I haven't found a happy medium yet, but I assume there is one.

But don't think it's just this game. I've seen this happen on fast greens on a real course. I've had many pars and birdies turned into bogies and pars from this in my time of actually walking the courses.

I don't notice this that much on medium greens. They seem to hold shots fairly well. And medium slow to slow greens, the ball seems to stick like a fly on flypaper.
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JoeyBaconBits

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« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2014, 12:20:27 PM »
Agree with the post above. Some of the slower greens seem fine. The fast ones seem to actually accelerate the ball after it lands so that it doesn't stop until it rolls off into the fringe or rough. Would just like to see that fixed if possible.

anserman

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« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2014, 01:16:39 PM »
People dial up the firmness setting which is what controls what you are seeing.

They do it mostly to make their course play "hard" when it really just plays unrealistic honestly.

Unless the ball spin physics are fixed like they should be it really shouldn't be a setting used in my opinion. 


Pubknight

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« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2014, 11:29:02 AM »
As a new player/forum member, I didn't want to start a new thread if the issue had been brought up before... so I'm glad I found this thread.

I'm sure a lot of players of this game play at least a little golf in real life.
Personally, I'm quite avid, and a decent player.
For the most part, the golf physics in this game are very good.
Green roll out however is just off.

Some observations on improving it:
- The 'default' green in the course designer should have an overall tilt towards where the approach shot is coming from. This is how greens are created in real life, and it makes them receptive to approach shots.  Fairways are designed for a ball to roll after it lands, greens are designed to stop it.  My feeling is the greens (in general, not all) are flat in terms of pitch.  Not everyone that plays with the course designer will realize that greens tilt forwards, so the tools should default to allow them to create realistic situations.  This allows even firm fast greens to receive approach shots.
- Backspin. Backspin obviously exists in the game... I've spun a lob wedge back towards me right  off a green. However, backspin does not seem to exist on any club that isn't a wedge. It could be something as simple as increasing the backspin factor on all clubs.  To me this is the item that seems the most off.  Even a five or six iron has a good amount of backspin on it in real life... in game it seems there is none.
- Green physics - The first 'bounce' for clubs coming in from height just doesn't seem to kill enough momentum of the shot.
- Information - Most course yardage markers/gps's will give front/middle/back yardages, as opposed to just 'to the pin' yardages.  Pending any improvement in the physics, at least providing players with this information would allow them to better work with the physics that are there.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy the game, and most of it 'feels' right from a golf perspective.
But this one aspect doesn't, and I hope the dev team is looking at ways to improve it.

ajl5313

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« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2014, 01:18:10 PM »
As a new player/forum member, I didn't want to start a new thread if the issue had been brought up before... so I'm glad I found this thread.

I'm sure a lot of players of this game play at least a little golf in real life.
Personally, I'm quite avid, and a decent player.
For the most part, the golf physics in this game are very good.
Green roll out however is just off.

Some observations on improving it:
- The 'default' green in the course designer should have an overall tilt towards where the approach shot is coming from. This is how greens are created in real life, and it makes them receptive to approach shots.  Fairways are designed for a ball to roll after it lands, greens are designed to stop it.  My feeling is the greens (in general, not all) are flat in terms of pitch.  Not everyone that plays with the course designer will realize that greens tilt forwards, so the tools should default to allow them to create realistic situations.  This allows even firm fast greens to receive approach shots.
- Backspin. Backspin obviously exists in the game... I've spun a lob wedge back towards me right  off a green. However, backspin does not seem to exist on any club that isn't a wedge. It could be something as simple as increasing the backspin factor on all clubs.  To me this is the item that seems the most off.  Even a five or six iron has a good amount of backspin on it in real life... in game it seems there is none.
- Green physics - The first 'bounce' for clubs coming in from height just doesn't seem to kill enough momentum of the shot.
- Information - Most course yardage markers/gps's will give front/middle/back yardages, as opposed to just 'to the pin' yardages.  Pending any improvement in the physics, at least providing players with this information would allow them to better work with the physics that are there.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy the game, and most of it 'feels' right from a golf perspective.
But this one aspect doesn't, and I hope the dev team is looking at ways to improve it.

Awesome post.
110% agree with all of it - Especially the green physics and backspin points.

Duckman33

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« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2015, 02:05:43 PM »
As a new player/forum member, I didn't want to start a new thread if the issue had been brought up before... so I'm glad I found this thread.

I'm sure a lot of players of this game play at least a little golf in real life.
Personally, I'm quite avid, and a decent player.
For the most part, the golf physics in this game are very good.
Green roll out however is just off.

Some observations on improving it:
- The 'default' green in the course designer should have an overall tilt towards where the approach shot is coming from. This is how greens are created in real life, and it makes them receptive to approach shots.  Fairways are designed for a ball to roll after it lands, greens are designed to stop it.  My feeling is the greens (in general, not all) are flat in terms of pitch.  Not everyone that plays with the course designer will realize that greens tilt forwards, so the tools should default to allow them to create realistic situations.  This allows even firm fast greens to receive approach shots.
- Backspin. Backspin obviously exists in the game... I've spun a lob wedge back towards me right  off a green. However, backspin does not seem to exist on any club that isn't a wedge. It could be something as simple as increasing the backspin factor on all clubs.  To me this is the item that seems the most off.  Even a five or six iron has a good amount of backspin on it in real life... in game it seems there is none.
- Green physics - The first 'bounce' for clubs coming in from height just doesn't seem to kill enough momentum of the shot.
- Information - Most course yardage markers/gps's will give front/middle/back yardages, as opposed to just 'to the pin' yardages.  Pending any improvement in the physics, at least providing players with this information would allow them to better work with the physics that are there.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy the game, and most of it 'feels' right from a golf perspective.
But this one aspect doesn't, and I hope the dev team is looking at ways to improve it.

As another actual golfer, this analysis is spot on.

ajl5313

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« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2015, 02:54:01 PM »
As a new player/forum member, I didn't want to start a new thread if the issue had been brought up before... so I'm glad I found this thread.

I'm sure a lot of players of this game play at least a little golf in real life.
Personally, I'm quite avid, and a decent player.
For the most part, the golf physics in this game are very good.
Green roll out however is just off.

Some observations on improving it:
- The 'default' green in the course designer should have an overall tilt towards where the approach shot is coming from. This is how greens are created in real life, and it makes them receptive to approach shots.  Fairways are designed for a ball to roll after it lands, greens are designed to stop it.  My feeling is the greens (in general, not all) are flat in terms of pitch.  Not everyone that plays with the course designer will realize that greens tilt forwards, so the tools should default to allow them to create realistic situations.  This allows even firm fast greens to receive approach shots.
- Backspin. Backspin obviously exists in the game... I've spun a lob wedge back towards me right  off a green. However, backspin does not seem to exist on any club that isn't a wedge. It could be something as simple as increasing the backspin factor on all clubs.  To me this is the item that seems the most off.  Even a five or six iron has a good amount of backspin on it in real life... in game it seems there is none.
- Green physics - The first 'bounce' for clubs coming in from height just doesn't seem to kill enough momentum of the shot.
- Information - Most course yardage markers/gps's will give front/middle/back yardages, as opposed to just 'to the pin' yardages.  Pending any improvement in the physics, at least providing players with this information would allow them to better work with the physics that are there.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy the game, and most of it 'feels' right from a golf perspective.
But this one aspect doesn't, and I hope the dev team is looking at ways to improve it.

As another actual golfer, this analysis is spot on.

Yep - My uncle refuses to play TGC anymore because of this.  He's an older guy (high 70's, but sharp as ever) and plays real golf 2-3 times a week (has for decades) and literally the first thing he commented on when playing TGC for the first time --- was this issue.

If you play real golf, these physics issues as mentioned can basically ruin the entire TGC game for you.

As I've said many times - ALL of the fluff of graphics and zillions of courses, multiplayer, etc...

ALL of it goes out the window if the core of the physics of the game of golf are not right.  (Don't get me started on putting on sidehills)

It is *really* frustrating that HB won't even comment on it in any shape or fashion (even if they disagree it would be better than silence).

Mike1409

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« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2015, 03:34:07 PM »

As a new player/forum member, I didn't want to start a new thread if the issue had been brought up before... so I'm glad I found this thread.

I'm sure a lot of players of this game play at least a little golf in real life.
Personally, I'm quite avid, and a decent player.
For the most part, the golf physics in this game are very good.
Green roll out however is just off.

Some observations on improving it:
- The 'default' green in the course designer should have an overall tilt towards where the approach shot is coming from. This is how greens are created in real life, and it makes them receptive to approach shots.  Fairways are designed for a ball to roll after it lands, greens are designed to stop it.  My feeling is the greens (in general, not all) are flat in terms of pitch.  Not everyone that plays with the course designer will realize that greens tilt forwards, so the tools should default to allow them to create realistic situations.  This allows even firm fast greens to receive approach shots.
- Backspin. Backspin obviously exists in the game... I've spun a lob wedge back towards me right  off a green. However, backspin does not seem to exist on any club that isn't a wedge. It could be something as simple as increasing the backspin factor on all clubs.  To me this is the item that seems the most off.  Even a five or six iron has a good amount of backspin on it in real life... in game it seems there is none.
- Green physics - The first 'bounce' for clubs coming in from height just doesn't seem to kill enough momentum of the shot.
- Information - Most course yardage markers/gps's will give front/middle/back yardages, as opposed to just 'to the pin' yardages.  Pending any improvement in the physics, at least providing players with this information would allow them to better work with the physics that are there.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy the game, and most of it 'feels' right from a golf perspective.
But this one aspect doesn't, and I hope the dev team is looking at ways to improve it.

Awesome post.
110% agree with all of it - Especially the green physics and backspin points.

I agree with this completely. The worst thing you can do is one hop a green in the game. In real life one hop takes the spin off the ball and then it rolls on the green in the game it just accelerates through the green.

IDontShineShoesAnymore

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« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2015, 06:02:19 PM »
    Agree completely with everything stated above. Some courses are simply impossible to hold the green on with medium to long irons. Love the game to death, this just gets old after a while and robs some enjoyment. I know the designers pick green firmness, but seems a lot of the tourney courses at tgctours behave this way. Perhaps I'm simply not skilled enough to deal with them.
    Another issue for me is the wind. Love to see it dialed back a bit, just played 4 out of 5 rounds with 15-20 mph winds. Gets tedious after a while.
"We don't see that on our end"

Zmax

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« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2015, 10:31:57 PM »
We don't see this problem on TGC Simulator version.  I believe its because we use better backspin data from our sensors and launch monitors.  It's possible that HB are using a set of backspin numbers that are too low for most clubs except for wedges.  So, the physics itself is fine I think but they just might be using too low of spin numbers.  Just an educated guess on my part.

Is there a way for you guys to add spin to your shots aside from increasing the loft?

ajl5313

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« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2015, 10:41:33 PM »
We don't see this problem on TGC Simulator version.  I believe its because we use better backspin data from our sensors and launch monitors.  It's possible that HB are using a set of backspin numbers that are too low for most clubs except for wedges.  So, the physics itself is fine I think but they just might be using too low of spin numbers.  Just an educated guess on my part.

Is there a way for you guys to add spin to your shots aside from increasing the loft?


Interesting - That does perhaps make one hopeful that some tweaks could easily fix some of this stuff.

ralphieboy72

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« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2015, 10:17:02 AM »
The information on the spin numbers would be interesting.   

For how the game plays now, I would prefer we had some more options in the course creator to adjust firmness of the fairways and greens.  Right now, the firmness of the fairways dial also affects the firmness of the greens.   What I found on a recent course I'm creating is that just one notch on that dial can make the course play completely differently.  If I go to the less firm setting, I feel like the course plays too easy.  It's target practice.  When I move the firmness dial just one notch to the right, the course then plays too firm and most iron shots roll off the back of the green.

It would be nice for designers if they could fine tune things a little more.  The differences between just one notch on the dial shouldn't be so drastic.

UrsusArctos

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« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2015, 10:36:44 AM »
I agree with this completely. The worst thing you can do is one hop a green in the game. In real life one hop takes the spin off the ball and then it rolls on the green in the game it just accelerates through the green.
This happens with mid and long irons because the 1st bounce takes out too much spin. Example: 4000 rpm backspin - 6000 rpm reduction on bounce results in 2000 rpm topspin -> and this makes the ball accelerate! (rem: the numbers are just used as illustrating example)


We don't see this problem on TGC Simulator version.  I believe its because we use better backspin data from our sensors and launch monitors.  It's possible that HB are using a set of backspin numbers that are too low for most clubs except for wedges.  So, the physics itself is fine I think but they just might be using too low of spin numbers.  Just an educated guess on my part.

Is there a way for you guys to add spin to your shots aside from increasing the loft?
No, there is no seperate controll for the backspin on any platform (except your sims). The problem is that in the game lofting the clubs allmost only affects the shots length and does not change the balls spin nor the shot-trajectory. And this is simply wrong and has been reported several time allready.
Chris
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ajl5313

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« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2015, 01:26:43 PM »
It was nice to wakeup today and see some responses from Lorin about some of the feature enhancement threads/comments -

-- But alas, the physics topics continue to be left to die.  (really frustrating)

 

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