Gps

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bob5453

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« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2015, 09:38:38 PM »

It's 2015 and if I wanna know I can hit it 184 yards without going into a bunker I should be able to know it.  In real golf this info is readily available and inexpensive and effective and the average golfer uses those devices.

This game is about average golfer :)

I have to agree, the skycaddie would be perfect for this game and it's exactly what I would expect to be in a next gen golf game. It would be awesome to have it in TGC.
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« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2015, 10:59:54 PM »
Using the argument that having GPS-like abilities in a video game is necessary because people use them in real life doesn't make sense to me.

In real life golf is much more complicated than swinging one little stick back and forth in a straight line.  There's FAR more opportunity for error and it requires much greater skill. 

People are currently shooting scores in the high 50's on a consistent basis with the game as it is.  If you remove another piece of judgment from the equation then I can only imagine that those scores will just get lower and lower.

Creating a solid simulation of anything isn't simply a matter of copying the real thing... sometimes you have to get that "feeling" by making it challenging in other ways.

I'd much rather see people playing courses over and over and making their own charts/guides to perfect their scores than just having that data handed to them at the drop of a hat. 
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SKREC

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« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2015, 11:15:20 PM »
Using the argument that having GPS-like abilities in a video game is necessary because people use them in real life doesn't make sense to me.

In real life golf is much more complicated than swinging one little stick back and forth in a straight line.  There's FAR more opportunity for error and it requires much greater skill. 

People are currently shooting scores in the high 50's on a consistent basis with the game as it is.  If you remove another piece of judgment from the equation then I can only imagine that those scores will just get lower and lower.

Creating a solid simulation of anything isn't simply a matter of copying the real thing... sometimes you have to get that "feeling" by making it challenging in other ways.

I'd much rather see people playing courses over and over and making their own charts/guides to perfect their scores than just having that data handed to them at the drop of a hat.

I think you're missing some of the point, those of us looking for gps want the scout cam (zooming in) removed in favor of the GPS system.... I believe the scout cam or zoom feature greatly increases the ability for people to shoot these low rounds cause they can see where the ball will land.

mebby

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« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2015, 11:28:11 PM »
Using the argument that having GPS-like abilities in a video game is necessary because people use them in real life doesn't make sense to me.

In real life golf is much more complicated than swinging one little stick back and forth in a straight line.  There's FAR more opportunity for error and it requires much greater skill. 

People are currently shooting scores in the high 50's on a consistent basis with the game as it is.  If you remove another piece of judgment from the equation then I can only imagine that those scores will just get lower and lower.

Creating a solid simulation of anything isn't simply a matter of copying the real thing... sometimes you have to get that "feeling" by making it challenging in other ways.

I'd much rather see people playing courses over and over and making their own charts/guides to perfect their scores than just having that data handed to them at the drop of a hat.

I think you're missing some of the point, those of us looking for gps want the scout cam (zooming in) removed in favor of the GPS system.... I believe the scout cam or zoom feature greatly increases the ability for people to shoot these low rounds cause they can see where the ball will land.

Ah... OK.  Now this makes some sense to me.  I never liked using the scout camera because I prefer more of a simulation feel.

So maybe two options while playing the game would be good.  One with the scout game and the overhead as we have it now and one with GPS but no scout cam.  The options would be tethered together.

That would let both sets of people play as they wish.
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UrsusArctos

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« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2015, 11:28:26 PM »
I think you're missing some of the point, those of us looking for gps want the scout cam (zooming in) removed in favor of the GPS system.... I believe the scout cam or zoom feature greatly increases the ability for people to shoot these low rounds cause they can see where the ball will land.


I don't think these "low" scores have to do with gps or scout camera. The problem here is much more the lack of proper physics. As long as there is no up-/downhill lie implemented these scores will remain as ridiculous as they are. There are reasons why GPS and there usage still is a "if local rules allow" thing and by default thru the golfrules still are (and hopefully stay) forbidden. None of the worldwide PGA tours of any level do allow it. And even on most national or international Amateur tournaments they are banned.
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SKREC

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« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2015, 03:32:57 AM »
I think you're missing some of the point, those of us looking for gps want the scout cam (zooming in) removed in favor of the GPS system.... I believe the scout cam or zoom feature greatly increases the ability for people to shoot these low rounds cause they can see where the ball will land.


I don't think these "low" scores have to do with gps or scout camera. The problem here is much more the lack of proper physics. As long as there is no up-/downhill lie implemented these scores will remain as ridiculous as they are. There are reasons why GPS and there usage still is a "if local rules allow" thing and by default thru the golfrules still are (and hopefully stay) forbidden. None of the worldwide PGA tours of any level do allow it. And even on most national or international Amateur tournaments they are banned.

I think you need to check your sources if you are insinuating that GPS devices are outlawed by the USGA/R&A/RCGA

and again (don't know how many times this has to be said before PGA references stop) this is NOT a PGA tour game it IS a game meant to simulate golf at the weekend golfer level...
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 04:00:25 AM by SKREC »

HB_LorinB

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« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2015, 05:03:24 AM »
I think you're missing some of the point, those of us looking for gps want the scout cam (zooming in) removed in favor of the GPS system.... I believe the scout cam or zoom feature greatly increases the ability for people to shoot these low rounds cause they can see where the ball will land.

First of all, as always, great feedback and great discussion.

So you are suggesting removing the scout cam and replacing it with GPS?  Or, I am assuming, just leaving the option to turn it off in favor of the GPS?

Please forgive me for being thick...but what does the GPS offer you that the scout cam doesn't?  Do you feel the scout cam makes it too easy? If so, than how does having the GPS make the game any more challenging? If the Scout Cam is too easy, then I would think you would want the extra challenge that using only the Overhead cam adds.  If you add the exact yardage to the overhead cam (which esntially makes it a GPS) you remove the additional challenge.

Again, these are genuine questions to suss out this concept.  I am not being obstinate...I swear :)

SKREC

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« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2015, 05:40:23 AM »
I think you're missing some of the point, those of us looking for gps want the scout cam (zooming in) removed in favor of the GPS system.... I believe the scout cam or zoom feature greatly increases the ability for people to shoot these low rounds cause they can see where the ball will land.

First of all, as always, great feedback and great discussion.

So you are suggesting removing the scout cam and replacing it with GPS?  Or, I am assuming, just leaving the option to turn it off in favor of the GPS?

Please forgive me for being thick...but what does the GPS offer you that the scout cam doesn't?  Do you feel the scout cam makes it too easy? If so, than how does having the GPS make the game any more challenging? If the Scout Cam is too easy, then I would think you would want the extra challenge that using only the Overhead cam adds.  If you add the exact yardage to the overhead cam (which esntially makes it a GPS) you remove the additional challenge.

Again, these are genuine questions to suss out this concept.  I am not being obstinate...I swear :)

with the scout cam I can hold RT (XB1) and zoom all the way in to see where my ball will land with a flat lie no wind etc (just like TW) with a gps view it would be the overhead view with the yardages to hazards (bunkers, water etc..), front middle and back of green and also the ability to select any point on the map and get a yardage to that point and from that point to the pin (in the overhead/gps cam only) a certain area of the fairway for example if you want to lay up to a specific yardage on a par 5 you would then have to identify an "aim point" on the overhead view accounting for wind side hill lie and try to find that same object (tree, edge of bunker, etc..) while addressing the ball.. (no matter how many times you go to that overhead view should it ever show you where you are currently aimed, just the point you selected to get a yardage to/from) then select the club that gives you the yardage you decided you wanted left into that long par 5 using your handy TGC G.P.S. unit swing away.


It eliminates the "zooming" in and out 50 times to see exactly where you are aimed. I don't know about you but I've never been on the course and had the ability to see exactly where I am aiming n the fairway.. down to the yard... (I wish I could I might be able to make the tour) and forces a more realistic aiming approach where you look for landmarks on your chosen line in your gps screen and spot the same landmark when lining up over the ball much like you would do in real life..

I understood pre-early access that you guys (HB) never wanted a "zoom to aim" feature like Tiger's in this game but with the scout cam that is exactly what you did albeit most likely unintentionally and without a big flashing arrow like tiger had but like previously stated if you zoom all the way in with RT it's pretty much exactly the same..

hope that my comments don't come off as disrespectful I just wanted the best sim and representation of the weekend golf experience we all enjoy IRL.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 05:48:17 AM by SKREC »

HB_LorinB

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« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2015, 05:59:07 AM »
Just so you know, Screk...when you are in Scout Cam, the bal could land anywhere in a 10 x 10 yard radius (I am making those numbers up..but roughly) of what you see on screen.  So when you zoom all the way in, that does not mean that is where your ball will land.  It could land 5-7 yards to the left of that.  The (invisible) aiming reticle when in the scout cam is not always in the center of the screen.  It is randomized in an area specifically so you can't tell the landing area to the yard.

Also, it seems odd to me that your argument around using the scout cam is that it gives you too much accuracy, but you are asking for a tool that gives you more accuracy. Again, I am not being glib...I genuinely trying to understand. 

It seems to me that if you feel the Scout Cam is too accurate, then you would want to use the Overhead view as it is, which gives you enough information to get a good idea of your shot, but not so much that it is pinpoint accurate.

Or is this not an issue of wanting more of a challenge, but just having a preference of how the information is presented (ie., you don't mind the accuracy of the Scout Cam, you would just rather look at the information differently)?


anserman

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« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2015, 08:46:16 AM »
For the record I don't think of GPS as replacing scout cam.

I just think it would be nice to know for layups on par 5's and more importantly if you wanna know a yardage left and target it.

Good golfers play to a yardage... my favorite club is my gap wedge which is 120 yards.  If I am on a par 5 I can't get to at least 60% of the time then I am gonna lay up to that 120 yard number because I will hit that club within a 10 foot circle most of the time.

To me it's silly I can't know that when I can know it in 99% of the rounds I play irl.

There will be a day soon when ALL levels of golf are played with assisted distances.  Folks like to think the tour guys can't use one during their rounds but they don't need to they have a human providing yardage down to the foot.

I pride myself on being able to tell what 75 yards is down to a few yards give or take but it's just not a skill we should care about today.  What I think you would see happen is more people would lay back some instead of just banging it down every fairway and reacting from there.  The golf could get a bit more precise.

It's your game but a dynamic overhead view would be awesome in my opinion.  It's how golf is played now at least in the USA.


mebby

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« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2015, 09:54:19 AM »
I think I'm starting to come around to this idea now.  But to me, it seems like we should have the option of scout cam OR GPS but not both at the same time. 
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FRSTDWN

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« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2015, 11:12:39 AM »
I do not use the zoom to aim and it would be nice to have a little more info on the overhead pic of the hole. Like more yardages to the bunkers around the fairways and around the green. To the front of the green would really help since a lot of greens don't hold that well.
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UrsusArctos

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« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2015, 11:19:37 AM »
I think you need to check your sources if you are insinuating that GPS devices are outlawed by the USGA/R&A/RCGA

and again (don't know how many times this has to be said before PGA references stop) this is NOT a PGA tour game it IS a game meant to simulate golf at the weekend golfer level...


Sorry m8, I missed that in January 2014 R&A generaly allowed the usage of mesurement devices.....
PGA or not PGA: I did with no word say this is something to do with PGA.
Physics is the same for all of them and as long as its not correct it will not react close to reality and should not be called a sim.

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wendy445

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« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2015, 12:25:45 PM »
For the record I don't think of GPS as replacing scout cam.

I just think it would be nice to know for layups on par 5's and more importantly if you wanna know a yardage left and target it.

Good golfers play to a yardage... my favorite club is my gap wedge which is 120 yards.  If I am on a par 5 I can't get to at least 60% of the time then I am gonna lay up to that 120 yard number because I will hit that club within a 10 foot circle most of the time.

To me it's silly I can't know that when I can know it in 99% of the rounds I play irl.



+1 ^^^^ PERFECT

There will be a day soon when ALL levels of golf are played with assisted distances.  Folks like to think the tour guys can't use one during their rounds but they don't need to they have a human providing yardage down to the foot.

I pride myself on being able to tell what 75 yards is down to a few yards give or take but it's just not a skill we should care about today.  What I think you would see happen is more people would lay back some instead of just banging it down every fairway and reacting from there.  The golf could get a bit more precise.

It's your game but a dynamic overhead view would be awesome in my opinion.  It's how golf is played now at least in the USA.
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SKREC

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« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2015, 04:02:26 PM »
Just so you know, Screk...when you are in Scout Cam, the bal could land anywhere in a 10 x 10 yard radius (I am making those numbers up..but roughly) of what you see on screen.  So when you zoom all the way in, that does not mean that is where your ball will land.  It could land 5-7 yards to the left of that.  The (invisible) aiming reticle when in the scout cam is not always in the center of the screen.  It is randomized in an area specifically so you can't tell the landing area to the yard.

Also, it seems odd to me that your argument around using the scout cam is that it gives you too much accuracy, but you are asking for a tool that gives you more accuracy. Again, I am not being glib...I genuinely trying to understand. 

It seems to me that if you feel the Scout Cam is too accurate, then you would want to use the Overhead view as it is, which gives you enough information to get a good idea of your shot, but not so much that it is pinpoint accurate.

Or is this not an issue of wanting more of a challenge, but just having a preference of how the information is presented (ie., you don't mind the accuracy of the Scout Cam, you would just rather look at the information differently)?

it would definitely be less accurate if I couldn't see that 5-7 yard circle where I am actually aimed... you can't do that in real life.. that is my main point, in real life you would have to pick out an object, usually on a GPS screen (tree, bunker edge, bush etc..) that is in your intended line and attempt to line up to that. not pull out magic binoculars that show you where your shot will land within a 15-21 foot circle... (btw TW had the same "random landing area" with their "zoom to aim" function)

* on a side note Lorin have you ever used a gps device when golfing, from what you've stated im gathering you haven't a lot of these issues/improvements would become way more apparent if you picked one up (or borrowed one) and played around with it a bit. (I suggest the Garmin or Skycaddie  as they are the most user friendly) *

I don't quite understand how you think a gps would be more accurate than a scout cam that essentially shows your ball flight/path and how far your club will carry visually to within 5-7 yards.. picking  a spot on a different screen then trying to aim to that spot without being able to zoom in to check if your lined up to the spot you think you picked would in no way be more accurate...

ADX summed up the most common use with his laying up to 120 yds comment.... but just because he selected a spot on his gps that leaves him 120 yds left to the green with the angle he wants doesn't mean he is automatically aimed there he still has to go out of that screen and try and line up to something that is in/or past the line he wants to land that ball not to mention he has to select a club take into account rollout, elevation, wind, and sidehill lies..) and even if he goes back into the gps screen it still wouldn't show him where he is currently aimed.

I guess my core complaint about playing with the scout cam on is that it doesn't exist IRL whereas GPS systems do and are quite commonly used, so it kind of ruins the immersion a bit of being out on a course with friends. and also the overhead view isn't much better I have never ever played a course that had yardages listed that way anywhere (scorecard, hole sign, yardage book) they are always listed to the green not from the tee or the have both yardages never just how far a point is from the tee.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 04:18:07 PM by SKREC »

 

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