Perfect Golf

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Stan Solo

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« Reply #8385 on: July 12, 2018, 01:23:49 PM »
One thing that puzzles me is   ....  they both use the Unity engine

Yet they seem to have the opposite struggles  ?

jcauthen04

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« Reply #8386 on: July 12, 2018, 01:28:47 PM »
One thing that puzzles me is   ....  they both use the Unity engine

Yet they seem to have the opposite struggles  ?

Yeah, I dream of a TGC with JNPG's bunkers (or sand pits for Jeffield's sake ;) ) in it, or a JNPG with TGC 2's fluid golfer animation.  It tells me the Unity engine is a bit more diverse than I give it credit.
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mebby

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« Reply #8387 on: July 12, 2018, 01:33:28 PM »
One thing that puzzles me is   ....  they both use the Unity engine

Yet they seem to have the opposite struggles  ?

I'm not sure if this is down to different skill sets and experiences or what.  I've heard that HBS may be using their own variant or something like that.  Who knows.

I think the other important thing to understand is that JNPG is ONLY coding for the PC while HBS has to deal with 3 platforms.  That may come into play as well.
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McBogga

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« Reply #8388 on: July 12, 2018, 01:37:06 PM »
Perfect Parallel's Mike Jones made a very interesting post in "The Golf Club 2019 Featuring PGA TOUR" thread in Perfect Parallel's forum.  He makes some pretty objective comparisons between JNPG and TGC 1/2/2910, IMO.  Here's a link if you're interested in reading:

http://www.perfectparallel.com/topic/10053-the-golf-club-2019-featuring-pga-tour/?p=160409

Commenting on competitor activities in that way and in such a channel is a fairly large business faux pas.

HB has been pure professionals in regards to other golf games.

Thanks McB, I was going to say almost the exact same thing but did not want to be taken to task by certain somebodies.

And taken to task I was...

No need to even bother answering. If some can’t see the difference in that MJ statement and what AK has said in the past then there is no discussion to be had.

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« Reply #8389 on: July 12, 2018, 01:47:55 PM »
Also, just because a developer gives an opinion on a competitors game does not necessarily make it gospel.  ;)


Mike would obviously have a slant on this as a developer to which most of us couldn't relate, but he's also going to have an understandable bias toward his product.  I still found his comments interesting and informative about both products, all things considered.

John's comment better illustrates what I was trying to convey.  :)


-MERACE

jcauthen04

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« Reply #8390 on: July 12, 2018, 01:57:54 PM »
And taken to task I was...

No need to even bother answering. If some can’t see the difference in that MJ statement and what AK has said in the past then there is no discussion to be had.

Do you really feel like you've been taken to task?  You stated your view on this and backed up your position logically.  I understand how you'd have the opinion that it was bad form.  We all process things like this differently, and I wouldn't pretend for a minute to say my view of if is the most proper or appropriate.  I'm guilty of having too thick a skin and tend to let things like that slide probably more than I should.

I agree with you that Mike's comments about TGC are a bit more pointed than what Anthony had said in the past about JNPG, but nothing that rose to the level of libelous or offensive.  I respect your view on this, but in the end I just have to say that we see it differently.  I wouldn't want to see a point/counterpoint exchange between developers break out in each developers off topic forums.  To their credit, HBS hasn't felt the need to weigh in here an rebut what Mike said, but they haven't had to.  Those responding here have done a good job of that themselves.
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mebby

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« Reply #8391 on: July 12, 2018, 02:20:29 PM »
Perfect Parallel's Mike Jones made a very interesting post in "The Golf Club 2019 Featuring PGA TOUR" thread in Perfect Parallel's forum.  He makes some pretty objective comparisons between JNPG and TGC 1/2/2910, IMO.  Here's a link if you're interested in reading:

http://www.perfectparallel.com/topic/10053-the-golf-club-2019-featuring-pga-tour/?p=160409

Commenting on competitor activities in that way and in such a channel is a fairly large business faux pas.

HB has been pure professionals in regards to other golf games.

Thanks McB, I was going to say almost the exact same thing but did not want to be taken to task by certain somebodies.

And taken to task I was...

No need to even bother answering. If some can’t see the difference in that MJ statement and what AK has said in the past then there is no discussion to be had.

I'm probably the last guy that would back Mike Jones up as I don't personally care for him all that much.  I've got a whole host of reasons for that which really aren't germane to this topic but the point is... I'm not his biggest fan.  I respect him but I'm still not a fan.

Even with all that said... I still see no issues with his honest feedback on a game that he has purchased and played AND plans to continue supporting with his purchase of TGC 2019.  In that regard, he's no different than any other forum poster.  The fact that he's in the business of video game development (although it's just a tangent to his real business) actually provides more weight to his comments than anything else.  Same goes for Anthony.  I enjoy hearing his thoughts on JNPG for the exact same reasons.

Clearly both folks are very invested in their own game so you can expect a few zingers but I think they've both been very civil, objective, and honest.
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Buck

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« Reply #8392 on: July 12, 2018, 02:23:34 PM »
It's interesting how some people are so sensitive about this seemingly only because "their particular golf game of choice" is in the crosshairs.


Would the same people be upset with Keith or Shaun if they came in here and made pointed, accurate, but perhaps somewhat aggressive comments about Perfect Golf?


Or would those people come and applaud, laugh and agree at commentary like that about "perfect gaffe"?

mebby

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« Reply #8393 on: July 12, 2018, 02:24:30 PM »
And taken to task I was...

No need to even bother answering. If some can’t see the difference in that MJ statement and what AK has said in the past then there is no discussion to be had.

Do you really feel like you've been taken to task?  You stated your view on this and backed up your position logically.  I understand how you'd have the opinion that it was bad form.  We all process things like this differently, and I wouldn't pretend for a minute to say my view of if is the most proper or appropriate.  I'm guilty of having too thick a skin and tend to let things like that slide probably more than I should.

I agree with you that Mike's comments about TGC are a bit more pointed than what Anthony had said in the past about JNPG, but nothing that rose to the level of libelous or offensive.  I respect your view on this, but in the end I just have to say that we see it differently.  I wouldn't want to see a point/counterpoint exchange between developers break out in each developers off topic forums.  To their credit, HBS hasn't felt the need to weigh in here an rebut what Mike said, but they haven't had to.  Those responding here have done a good job of that themselves.

At the end of the day... I think both camps agree on a lot of the same things.  The TGC franchise is definitely geared more towards the masses (casual play, arcade like elements, fun, etc) while JNPG honestly doesn't care about the masses.  They are trying to produce the most realistic golf game possible because it fully compliments the other things they do AND that's just what they want to see in a video game.  I've always maintained that there is room for both and I still feel that way.
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mebby

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« Reply #8394 on: July 12, 2018, 02:27:23 PM »
It's interesting how some people are so sensitive about this seemingly only because "their particular golf game of choice" is in the crosshairs.


Would the same people be upset with Keith or Shaun if they came in here and made pointed, accurate, but perhaps somewhat aggressive comments about Perfect Golf?


Or would those people come and applaud, laugh and agree at commentary like that about "perfect gaffe"?

True.  I think what this whole scenario points out is that there are essentially two camps of folks in these forums.

1 - Fanboys
2 - People who can enjoy both games for what they are

I fancy myself as being in the second group even if 80% of my play is in TGC2.  I could write paragraphs of pros/cons for both games.  In my mind I could create the PERFECT golf game by combining the strengths of both but that's not necessary when I can simply enjoy them both for what they are.
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McBogga

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« Reply #8395 on: July 12, 2018, 02:28:27 PM »
And taken to task I was...

No need to even bother answering. If some can’t see the difference in that MJ statement and what AK has said in the past then there is no discussion to be had.

Do you really feel like you've been taken to task?  You stated your view on this and backed up your position logically.  I understand how you'd have the opinion that it was bad form.  We all process things like this differently, and I wouldn't pretend for a minute to say my view of if is the most proper or appropriate.  I'm guilty of having too thick a skin and tend to let things like that slide probably more than I should.

I agree with you that Mike's comments about TGC are a bit more pointed than what Anthony had said in the past about JNPG, but nothing that rose to the level of libelous or offensive.  I respect your view on this, but in the end I just have to say that we see it differently.  I wouldn't want to see a point/counterpoint exchange between developers break out in each developers off topic forums.  To their credit, HBS hasn't felt the need to weigh in here an rebut what Mike said, but they haven't had to.  Those responding here have done a good job of that themselves.

Not by you, mate.

It is interesting from a customer point of view to read these things, but posting stuff like this never makes the company or product come off in a good light. Always important to keep in mind when in positions where one represents a product towards customers. It’s great for us as enthusiasts that he does this as it gives us insight , all I’m saying is that it’s not really professional behaviour for someone in his position. You seldom win anything by addressing competitor behaviour directly, just state the case around your product.

The way I read that MJ post is:

“We would have done a better job if we just had the same resources (as a customer I don’t care, and that does smell of hubris) and a more skilled development team (throwing the people that actually create the product under the bus. Nice one there, Mike,  and a great signal to customers that you have amateurs working on the product). Our product has a different direction than the competitor but I know we are inferior in multiple key areas. Oh and by the way we don’t really care about the video game segment anyway since we work with REAL Golf and PGA for REAL tournaments (Again, as a video game customer I don’t care what you do outside of making video games, it’s not like being on TV with some graphics makes your game better...).”

There is nothing in that post that is actually positive for Perfect Golf, and interactions in public arenas should be all about creating a positive image of your product.

He could have gotten the same point that I guess he is trying to make across in a much different way.

It could have worked if he would have left out that PGA part, and if PG had an severe indie angle and was fighting EA, but that is not really the story they have spun and HB is no powerhouse either...


mebby

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« Reply #8396 on: July 12, 2018, 02:36:27 PM »
And taken to task I was...

No need to even bother answering. If some can’t see the difference in that MJ statement and what AK has said in the past then there is no discussion to be had.

Do you really feel like you've been taken to task?  You stated your view on this and backed up your position logically.  I understand how you'd have the opinion that it was bad form.  We all process things like this differently, and I wouldn't pretend for a minute to say my view of if is the most proper or appropriate.  I'm guilty of having too thick a skin and tend to let things like that slide probably more than I should.

I agree with you that Mike's comments about TGC are a bit more pointed than what Anthony had said in the past about JNPG, but nothing that rose to the level of libelous or offensive.  I respect your view on this, but in the end I just have to say that we see it differently.  I wouldn't want to see a point/counterpoint exchange between developers break out in each developers off topic forums.  To their credit, HBS hasn't felt the need to weigh in here an rebut what Mike said, but they haven't had to.  Those responding here have done a good job of that themselves.

Not by you, mate.

It is interesting from a customer point of view to read these things, but posting stuff like this never makes the company or product come off in a good light. Always important to keep in mind when in positions where one represents a product towards customers. It’s great for us as enthusiasts that he does this as it gives us insight , all I’m saying is that it’s not really professional behaviour for someone in his position. You seldom win anything by addressing competitor behaviour directly, just state the case around your product.

The way I read that MJ post is:

“We would have done a better job if we just had the same resources (as a customer I don’t care, and that does smell of hubris) and a more skilled development team (throwing the people that actually create the product under the bus. Nice one there, Mike,  and a great signal to customers that you have amateurs working on the product). Our product has a different direction than the competitor but I know we are inferior in multiple key areas. Oh and by the way we don’t really care about the video game segment anyway since we work with REAL Golf and PGA for REAL tournaments (Again, as a video game customer I don’t care what you do outside of making video games, it’s not like being on TV with some graphics makes your game better...).”

There is nothing in that post that is actually positive for Perfect Golf, and interactions in public arenas should be all about creating a positive image of your product.

He could have gotten the same point that I guess he is trying to make across in a much different way.

It could have worked if he would have left out that PGA part, and if PG had an severe indie angle and was fighting EA, but that is not really the story they have spun and HB is no powerhouse either...

Interesting take on his comments.  It's very clear by the tone of your analysis that you weren't really being objective while reading it and that says more to me than any of the content that you wrote. 

Just my $0.02.
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Buck

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« Reply #8397 on: July 12, 2018, 02:41:49 PM »
@McBogga


I really came away from Mike's comments with different thoughts than you did.
I think all this shows is that different people and audiences will make different interpretations of things they read.

I've been *highly* critical of Mike over the years, but even I honestly did not come away with the insinuations you did there at all.
Trying to be fair to you, it just feels like you injected a lot of supposition and insinuations around what was said and painted it a certain way.

I totally get it.  It's somewhat natural to be a bit defensive about the game you personally prefer.
It works both ways and I'm sure I skew towards mild defense of PG also.


It's important to read really only what was said and try not to add "color" of our own around comments that frame things in a way that may not be what was intended.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 02:45:57 PM by Buck »

mebby

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« Reply #8398 on: July 12, 2018, 02:42:19 PM »
What I would actually LOVE to see is for AK to chime in on the TGC thread (on JNPG forums) and react to Mike's comments.  I seriously doubt we'd see an angry AK.  I think we'd see him mostly agreeing with what Mike posted and maybe offering some more insight in a few other areas.
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McBogga

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« Reply #8399 on: July 12, 2018, 04:30:27 PM »
And taken to task I was...

No need to even bother answering. If some can’t see the difference in that MJ statement and what AK has said in the past then there is no discussion to be had.

Do you really feel like you've been taken to task?  You stated your view on this and backed up your position logically.  I understand how you'd have the opinion that it was bad form.  We all process things like this differently, and I wouldn't pretend for a minute to say my view of if is the most proper or appropriate.  I'm guilty of having too thick a skin and tend to let things like that slide probably more than I should.

I agree with you that Mike's comments about TGC are a bit more pointed than what Anthony had said in the past about JNPG, but nothing that rose to the level of libelous or offensive.  I respect your view on this, but in the end I just have to say that we see it differently.  I wouldn't want to see a point/counterpoint exchange between developers break out in each developers off topic forums.  To their credit, HBS hasn't felt the need to weigh in here an rebut what Mike said, but they haven't had to.  Those responding here have done a good job of that themselves.

Not by you, mate.

It is interesting from a customer point of view to read these things, but posting stuff like this never makes the company or product come off in a good light. Always important to keep in mind when in positions where one represents a product towards customers. It’s great for us as enthusiasts that he does this as it gives us insight , all I’m saying is that it’s not really professional behaviour for someone in his position. You seldom win anything by addressing competitor behaviour directly, just state the case around your product.

The way I read that MJ post is:

“We would have done a better job if we just had the same resources (as a customer I don’t care, and that does smell of hubris) and a more skilled development team (throwing the people that actually create the product under the bus. Nice one there, Mike,  and a great signal to customers that you have amateurs working on the product). Our product has a different direction than the competitor but I know we are inferior in multiple key areas. Oh and by the way we don’t really care about the video game segment anyway since we work with REAL Golf and PGA for REAL tournaments (Again, as a video game customer I don’t care what you do outside of making video games, it’s not like being on TV with some graphics makes your game better...).”

There is nothing in that post that is actually positive for Perfect Golf, and interactions in public arenas should be all about creating a positive image of your product.

He could have gotten the same point that I guess he is trying to make across in a much different way.

It could have worked if he would have left out that PGA part, and if PG had an severe indie angle and was fighting EA, but that is not really the story they have spun and HB is no powerhouse either...

Interesting take on his comments.  It's very clear by the tone of your analysis that you weren't really being objective while reading it and that says more to me than any of the content that you wrote. 

Just my $0.02.

Aware that I took that interpretation to the extreme.

I have nothing against PG if that is what you are getting at. Would love for them to succeed. More options and some competition for HB.

Didn’t like the game too much personally. Not sure why, as I should have. It has a lot of good concepts, just doesn’t play that well IMO.

I guess I could be an arcade golfer that is yet to come out of the closet...

But my comments came from work experience of that type of communication, and were meant to be objective.


 

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