Oakland Hills Country Club (South Course) RCR~ TGC2 update

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Han

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« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2016, 11:10:37 AM »
I was just about to answer pretty much the same but Rod beat me to it  ;D

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friendBOMBER

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« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2016, 11:12:24 AM »
I can help you with this. When doing a recreation you have to make some modifications to account for what the designer can do. So for what I do is lay out the fairway, then make a rim of light rough, then sculpt in the lake just far enough away from the light rough, not to mess with it. then I lay heavy rough all the way around the lake. next step and this is probably the weirdest one to describe, but I go back with the light rough and plant it in the lake along the edges, but not to far up for it to show on the ground and where it  messes with my previous laid light rough. this will bring the nice green grass all the way down to the water's edge. I hope this makes sense. I also do the same thing for my bunkers(minus planting the light rough in the lake thing).
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Han

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« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2016, 11:18:49 AM »
If you are describing what I think you are FB then it also works from the fairway side as well. If you use the very edge of the fuzzy brushes. It greens up the edges nicely without actually laying down any visible light rough (unless you go "too far in" from the edge of the brush). I used it a lot when doing my Belfry RCR.
TGC 2019 Courses :
Real Club Valderrama
The Belfry - The Brabazon
The Belfry - Brabazon RC
Valle de los Reyes (Ballesteros) - with Scarpacci
TGC1/TGC2 Courses created :
Oakmere Golf Club
Rivington Hall Golf Club
Dunholme Manor Golf & CC
Douro Valley Par 3
Douro Valley Resort
Herons' Reach Golf Links

Royce

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« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2016, 11:23:15 AM »
Rod & Han, thanks for the quick reply.  That's the answer I was expecting, and light rough may just be a pipe dream, because as mentioned my fairways here on the South Course are so wide intermediate rough may be inconsequential (by the 4th hole I was already considering going back and narrowing every fairway in order to then allow for a intermediate cut boarder, with the total width (fw+rough) being equal width to the actual fairway (could have the effect of being more narrow but still looking somewhat authentic....but that would take a ton of time & effort to redo). 

The funny thing is the OHCC board approved widening of "member" fairway landing zones after the 2004 Ryder Cup, because they were considered too penal for members play (pro landing zones were left alone).



Then FriendBOMBER arrives with a different solution!  This I have to play around with in a practice sandbox, sounds interesting and way to combat the limitation of the GNCD.  I'm going to try this after I lay down the final bunkers on 7.

Good news is I really only have to deal with two bodies of water, plus a small creek, so it might be worthwhile to spend time making them look the best possible, especially since the water is on two of the more famous holes here (7 & 16).

At the very least I feel like I'm learning a ton about how this tool actually functions, or more so where the limitations reside.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 11:28:12 AM by Royce »
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TGC2 Completed Courses:
Augusta National Golf Club (members) - (voted 2017 TGC2 course of the year at TGCTours.com!)

TGC2 Works in progress:
Oakland Hills South redo
Pine Valley Golf Club

Royce

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« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2016, 12:13:31 PM »
I think I sorted out the pond issue with light rough.

Taking FriendBomber's advise I laid heavy rough down in the pond (go figure), then light rough between the pond & fairway.  This created a nice looking transition into the water, but left some residual strips of light rough protruding from the fairway texture. 

Not really knowing what to expect I then laid down more fairway over top (to try to cover & hide the ugly, uneven strips of light rough sticking out in areas) and to my surprise the fairway texture basically erased the light rough and replaced it exactly with fairway, so in essence I have a pond trimmed in heavy rough running down to the water, which is fine.

I will just pretend that the rough around the pond is too difficult for grounds keepers to maintain perfectly, so it's left thicker (the club doesn't want Juan to drive his rider into the water we'll say).  Bottom line is now it looks much cleaner and more well put together.  I'm not going to save these changes, but I have a place to start working with and belief that I can make it look right.

On to one of the 400 other details I need to sort out.   This process makes me appreciate even more the work done by the RCR designers.  It's a labour of love, that is certain.  This is also intense fun.

XBL Gamertag= Royce Brown CC

TGC2 Completed Courses:
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TGC2 Works in progress:
Oakland Hills South redo
Pine Valley Golf Club

Royce

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« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2016, 01:40:37 PM »
Well my life just improved greatly since I found this on YT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFgjBYA0eWg

This was done for every hole on South Course, really wish I'd found this before I started, tremendously helpful both visually & hearing the descriptions of each hole and how it generally plays.
XBL Gamertag= Royce Brown CC

TGC2 Completed Courses:
Augusta National Golf Club (members) - (voted 2017 TGC2 course of the year at TGCTours.com!)

TGC2 Works in progress:
Oakland Hills South redo
Pine Valley Golf Club

Royce

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« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2016, 09:42:54 PM »
Hole 7 video with tee boxes, fairway, bunkers, h2o & greens placed, relevant trees planted. 

Not sure what I'm going to do about the waste areas present here behind the far tee box and left side fairway (and on a handful of other holes)... maybe use a cart path texture and then plant the bejesus out of it with grasses.... wish you could select a second heavy rough as a custom surface, then just lay down some brownish heavy rough in specific areas.  I need the look theclv has at Doak Valley.

Rustic trees are way too giant, who thought this was a good default size?  And why are the coniferous trees so barren looking, where is a traditional full bodied spruce?  I'm starting to wonder more and more if Boreal would be a better option for the look of the course.

Official flyover: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFgjBYA0eWg

GNCD vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O198qGDBQBU
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 11:46:32 PM by Royce »
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TGC2 Completed Courses:
Augusta National Golf Club (members) - (voted 2017 TGC2 course of the year at TGCTours.com!)

TGC2 Works in progress:
Oakland Hills South redo
Pine Valley Golf Club

Royce

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« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2016, 05:14:59 PM »
I have the 8th fairway & green laid out and started plotting bunkers. 

I'm realizing quickly that to accurately map out each of the 135 bunkers that exist on the South course is going to be a real chore, no idea how the 1,000+ on Whistling were done without losing sanity.  Good news is that once I finish the 8th hole I'm 1/3 of the way complete with 6 full holes laid out. Also no major issues with the plot size, so far I think I can fit all the holes in the actual dimensions of the course, so that's good. 

I really like the way the course is looking as more adjacent holes are created, really makes it start to look like something potentially real.  The one issue I foresee is having to move some of the gigantic Rustic trees away from tee boxes, or remove them entirely if not "in play"......the size of the trees and the shadows they cast make some areas look way too confined, but I'm willing to work around that a bit for the sake of playability.........

I will post a designer video once #8 is done later tonight, if anyone cares/enjoys seeing the WIP action.


Official flyover hole #8: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WY9K0cCXOg

GNCD vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6X4dLvm7pU
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 12:34:27 PM by Royce »
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TGC2 Completed Courses:
Augusta National Golf Club (members) - (voted 2017 TGC2 course of the year at TGCTours.com!)

TGC2 Works in progress:
Oakland Hills South redo
Pine Valley Golf Club

rdh

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« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2016, 09:51:33 PM »
Note to HB-Paul...please update us on the scaling below 1:1 for trees/objects and whether that will be in the next update.  Yet another scenario where it is needed.

rdh

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« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2016, 09:52:55 PM »
I have the 8th fairway & green laid out and started plotting bunkers. 

I'm realizing quickly that to accurately map out each of the 135 bunkers that exist on the South course is going to be a real chore, no idea how the 1,000+ on Whistling were done without losing sanity.  Good news is that once I finish the 8th hole I'm 1/3 of the way complete with 6 full holes laid out. Also no major issues with the plot size, so far I think I can fit all the holes in the actual dimensions of the course, so that's good. 

I really like the way the course is looking as more adjacent holes are created, really makes it start to look like something potentially real.  The one issue I foresee is having to move some of the gigantic Rustic trees away from tee boxes, or remove them entirely if not "in play"......the size of the trees and the shadows they cast make some areas look way too confined, but I'm willing to work around that a bit for the sake of playability.........

I will post a designer video once #8 is done later tonight, if anyone cares/enjoys seeing the WIP action.


Official flyover hole #8: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WY9K0cCXOg

GNCD vid:

Looking forward to your video once it's posted!

Royce

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« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2016, 12:39:01 PM »
Hole 8 finally complete with vids below. 

Slowly working my way back to the clubhouse, with the monster 257 yard par 3 9th coming next, then I either move back to finish holes 5 & 6 or move on to the 10th & 11th, not sure which direction I'm going to go yet, probably depends on how smoothly the 9th gets laid down.  Actually thinking about it I'd rather have the full front 9 laid out, then it makes it easier to play through each hole sequentially.



Official flyover hole #8: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WY9K0cCXOg

GNCD vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6X4dLvm7pU
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TGC2 Completed Courses:
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TGC2 Works in progress:
Oakland Hills South redo
Pine Valley Golf Club

Royce

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« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2016, 12:44:49 PM »
Hole 5 compare.  I wish there was a better way to do pics on XB, was really difficult to get a full overhead compare, but I think it gets the point across (note the google image is from 2010, some minor changes compared to my build). 



This is my most planted hole so far, I really started messing around with putting a few of the bordering houses beyond the 5th green just to see what it looks like, so far so good, I think I can capture the feel of expensive estates boarding the course.  I wasn't sure how all of the planting along the Lasher Road was going to come out but I think it looks pretty good so far.  Had to use a lot of over sized bushes to block the view behind the trees.  The creek needs some work, the water looks kind of odd from distance.  Also have to correct the waypoint to pull driver from tee.  Five tee boxes here offer some options for shortening this near 500 yard par4.

I decided to toss in some rough just to see how it looks, to visually hide that hideous fw boarder. 


Official flyover hole #5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UIWLsH_PHk

GNCD vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amgdx39NsgI


On to hole 6 now.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 01:06:48 PM by Royce »
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TGC2 Completed Courses:
Augusta National Golf Club (members) - (voted 2017 TGC2 course of the year at TGCTours.com!)

TGC2 Works in progress:
Oakland Hills South redo
Pine Valley Golf Club

friendBOMBER

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« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2016, 07:59:31 PM »
Looks like you are doing a great job here! I do see you are planting along as you go, but I don't see any sculpting yet. I might actually suggest sculpting the bunkers, greens, etc. before planting. It can be hard to see what you are doing with the shadows on the ground. Maybe at this point change the time of day so the shadows are away from where you are working. Anyways, looking great man!
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Royce

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« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2016, 09:00:08 PM »
Looks like you are doing a great job here! I do see you are planting along as you go, but I don't see any sculpting yet. I might actually suggest sculpting the bunkers, greens, etc. before planting. It can be hard to see what you are doing with the shadows on the ground. Maybe at this point change the time of day so the shadows are away from where you are working. Anyways, looking great man!

Yes, I have done absolutely zero sculpting so far, mostly because it's my weak spot in the designer, I really don't know where to even start, so I wanted all 18 mapped out in full before I even thought about elevation.  I'm not sure if I should start from the low points near water & move the ground up or if I should try to apply some larger brushes to get general slopes in then work each hole individually.....

Oh also I didn't want to sculpt anything with all my measurement points appearing, but I also don't want to clear them because I love having the reference points to go back to so I can compare exactly to what I measured (and saved) in Google Earth Pro, that makes lining up hole and details much easier.


I didn't want to plant anything originally, but I can get some of that stuff done (less tedious measurements) when I"m "working", so I got a few areas done on some long conf calls this week.  That is an excellent point you bring up regarding bunkers and sculpting with no trees in, never considered that but I would rather do that then have to deal with moving the sun position for ever bunker I sculpt.  Going back to add in trees is even easier when all adjacent holes are in, more could be eyeballed versus having to measure everything.

Thanks for the feedback & tip, much appreciated.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 09:04:31 PM by Royce »
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TGC2 Completed Courses:
Augusta National Golf Club (members) - (voted 2017 TGC2 course of the year at TGCTours.com!)

TGC2 Works in progress:
Oakland Hills South redo
Pine Valley Golf Club

friendBOMBER

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« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2016, 10:34:57 PM »
Yeah, I would do that, remove the trees when you start sculpting. I first get my elevation from tee to landing area in the fairway correct. Then I go to the fairway and get my to the green elevation correct. Once I have those two or three points correct then I start sculpting around greens, bunkers etc. Use the two fuzzy brushes to make your mounds and use them around your bunkers. They give the most natural feel. Try not to have any weird angles.

Also have you tried taking screen shots on your Xbox? After you take a screen shot, you then can export it to Onedrive. After you do that, you can download it to a site like Photobucket. Then from photobucket you can share your "IMG"  link and past it into your thread. That way you can get a better looking image in your thread. you might already know how to do this, I just noticed the TV glare on your last images.
Check out all my course's, listed in the OP of my "friendBOMBER's course catalog" thread in TGC2019 completed courses:

http://www.hb-studios.com/forum/index.php?topic=29412.msg351275#msg351275

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