"Inverted Swing" only - a bug or a design decision?

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jcauthen04

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« on: August 30, 2018, 10:47:22 AM »
In TGC 1 and 2, we had the option to select between Inverted and Normal swings.  With an inverted swing, the ball would leave the impact along the same path the club took to make impact with it, while the "Normal" setting would cause an inside/out swing to produce a draw/hook, and an outside/in path would produce a fade/slice.

I'm having to remind myself to rethink reality every time I hit a shot now because I've been acclimatized to think of the shot making process in the traditional, Newtonian physics sense, which was what TGC 2 presented as "Normal".

I have to ask, was this a conscious design decision or is it a bug that can be fixed?  I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's the latter.
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leslie.sangster

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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2018, 12:19:57 PM »
I push most of my shots now where in TGC2 they used to draw or hook I’m finding it quite hard making myself aim left of the flag instead of right but I’m getting there I just have to trust it. The swing in 2019 has effectively blocked off the left side of the fairway for me now unless I have a very fast downswing which isn’t very often. My bad shot now is a push or slice the opposite of TGC2.



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jcauthen04

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« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2018, 01:13:19 PM »
I push most of my shots now where in TGC2 they used to draw or hook I’m finding it quite hard making myself aim left of the flag instead of right but I’m getting there I just have to trust it. The swing in 2019 has effectively blocked off the left side of the fairway for me now unless I have a very fast downswing which isn’t very often. My bad shot now is a push or slice the opposite of TGC2.

Same here... most of my misses in TGC 2019 are pushes/fades, but because of my ingrained tendency to aim a bit right to make up for my draw capacity from TGC 2's "Normal" swing, the shot is further punished by the fact that I was already aligned to the right.  It just seems weird to me that you would nix something called "normal" in favor of something called "inverted" :o
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Thrangar

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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2018, 02:04:50 PM »
I simply cant draw or fade the ball with swing plane, its either done with loft box or slow/fast ...anyone?
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Coda1850

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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2018, 10:23:09 PM »
Whatever you want to call it in game.  Normal, inverted, dump truck, pineapple... swinging out to the right should have the draw effect (for a righty).  As I understand it - it currently does the opposite in game.
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HB_CraigC

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« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2018, 07:13:25 AM »
Your swing plane represents the swing path. Swing outside of the plane will push/pull the shot.

Draw/hook is applied with a fast downswing tempo. Fade/draw is a result of a slow downswing tempo.

As a righty, if your desired shot is a draw on target, swing to the right with a fast downswing. This push the ball and draw it back on target.

You can also check out our swing basics video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JgnN7-eb3rY&t=6s
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Coda1850

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« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2018, 07:48:45 AM »
Your swing plane represents the swing path. Swing outside of the plane will push/pull the shot.

Draw/hook is applied with a fast downswing tempo. Fade/draw is a result of a slow downswing tempo.

As a righty, if your desired shot is a draw on target, swing to the right with a fast downswing. This push the ball and draw it back on target.

You can also check out our swing basics video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JgnN7-eb3rY&t=6s

oh boy. 

A righty.
Lets say you push a shot in game.  So my swing plane has gone out to the right.  That represents my swing path.  If I swing a perfect in game tempo the ball will go straight which would mean my club face would be on target... but you have the shot pushed  :o  It doesn't make sense.  If I have a path out to the right & a squared up club face the ball will draw not push.  It would actually go left of target & you have it going right. 

Also - I will ignore you said draw/hook & fade/draw.  You mean draw/hook & fade/slice.  It's not the 1st time those terms have been confused by HB peoples...
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leslie.sangster

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« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2018, 10:54:22 AM »
Your swing plane represents the swing path. Swing outside of the plane will push/pull the shot.

Draw/hook is applied with a fast downswing tempo. Fade/draw is a result of a slow downswing tempo.

As a righty, if your desired shot is a draw on target, swing to the right with a fast downswing. This push the ball and draw it back on target.

You can also check out our swing basics video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JgnN7-eb3rY&t=6s

oh boy. 

A righty.
Lets say you push a shot in game.  So my swing plane has gone out to the right.  That represents my swing path.  If I swing a perfect in game tempo the ball will go straight which would mean my club face would be on target... but you have the shot pushed  :o  It doesn't make sense.  If I have a path out to the right & a squared up club face the ball will draw not push.  It would actually go left of target & you have it going right. 

Also - I will ignore you said draw/hook & fade/draw.  You mean draw/hook & fade/slice.  It's not the 1st time those terms have been confused by HB peoples...
I play with that all the time now because I used to draw the ball in TGC2 the ball doesn’t go that far right that I can’t allow for it in my setup like I used to do when I drew the ball. If you do get a fast downswing you get a nice draw on the ball as well.


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Martbloke

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« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2018, 12:13:48 PM »
Your swing plane represents the swing path. Swing outside of the plane will push/pull the shot.

Draw/hook is applied with a fast downswing tempo. Fade/draw is a result of a slow downswing tempo.

As a righty, if your desired shot is a draw on target, swing to the right with a fast downswing. This push the ball and draw it back on target.

You can also check out our swing basics video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JgnN7-eb3rY&t=6s

oh boy. 

A righty.
Lets say you push a shot in game.  So my swing plane has gone out to the right.  That represents my swing path.  If I swing a perfect in game tempo the ball will go straight which would mean my club face would be on target... but you have the shot pushed  :o  It doesn't make sense.  If I have a path out to the right & a squared up club face the ball will draw not push.  It would actually go left of target & you have it going right. 

Also - I will ignore you said draw/hook & fade/draw.  You mean draw/hook & fade/slice.  It's not the 1st time those terms have been confused by HB peoples...

I don't think the tempo is regarding being square (perpendicular) with your target but more your swing plane direction.

 I think what's being said is that if you swing out to the right and have perfect tempo (downswing), you are forcing the ball out right in the direction of your swing and the club face is square to the ball along that swing plane i.e. you swing straight through the ball towards the right making it go straight right; no draw, no fade.

If your tempo is fast (downswing), I'm seeing this that your wrists turn over too quick causing the club face to turn inwards (closed), meaning the club face is not pointing in the direction of your swing plane which causes the draw. Likewise if you are slow you are not turning you wrists over quick enough to square the club face up to the swing plane and so it leaves the club face open (angle more outwards of the swing plane), hence resulting in a fade/slice. If your tempo is perfect, your club face is basically pointing in the direction of your swing plane hence it goes straight.

..... I think 🤔 haha

Coda1850

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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2018, 01:32:13 PM »
Your swing plane represents the swing path. Swing outside of the plane will push/pull the shot.

Draw/hook is applied with a fast downswing tempo. Fade/draw is a result of a slow downswing tempo.

As a righty, if your desired shot is a draw on target, swing to the right with a fast downswing. This push the ball and draw it back on target.

You can also check out our swing basics video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JgnN7-eb3rY&t=6s

oh boy. 

A righty.
Lets say you push a shot in game.  So my swing plane has gone out to the right.  That represents my swing path.  If I swing a perfect in game tempo the ball will go straight which would mean my club face would be on target... but you have the shot pushed  :o  It doesn't make sense.  If I have a path out to the right & a squared up club face the ball will draw not push.  It would actually go left of target & you have it going right. 

Also - I will ignore you said draw/hook & fade/draw.  You mean draw/hook & fade/slice.  It's not the 1st time those terms have been confused by HB peoples...

I don't think the tempo is regarding being square (perpendicular) with your target but more your swing plane direction.

 I think what's being said is that if you swing out to the right and have perfect tempo (downswing), you are forcing the ball out right in the direction of your swing and the club face is square to the ball along that swing plane i.e. you swing straight through the ball towards the right making it go straight right; no draw, no fade.

If your tempo is fast (downswing), I'm seeing this that your wrists turn over too quick causing the club face to turn inwards (closed), meaning the club face is not pointing in the direction of your swing plane which causes the draw. Likewise if you are slow you are not turning you wrists over quick enough to square the club face up to the swing plane and so it leaves the club face open (angle more outwards of the swing plane), hence resulting in a fade/slice. If your tempo is perfect, your club face is basically pointing in the direction of your swing plane hence it goes straight.

..... I think 🤔 haha

They just have things tied to other things that do not add up.  Tempo is perfect & you're straight... it goes straight.  Tempo is fast & you're straight... it goes left.  Tempo is perfect & line is right... it goes straight right.  That doesn't add up.  It's like when your straight perfect you're swinging at 0 with a 0 clubface.  But when you're right perfect your swinging, lets say, 5' out but now the clubface changes from the previous perfect's 0 to also out 5' right (because it's a "push").  If perfect is 0 in one instance & changes to 5' out in the next... it's weird.
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jcauthen04

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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2018, 01:52:12 PM »
Your swing plane represents the swing path. Swing outside of the plane will push/pull the shot.

Draw/hook is applied with a fast downswing tempo. Fade/draw is a result of a slow downswing tempo.

As a righty, if your desired shot is a draw on target, swing to the right with a fast downswing. This push the ball and draw it back on target.

You can also check out our swing basics video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JgnN7-eb3rY&t=6s

I'm glad you explained this... now I understand my inability to reconcile the results I was getting.  It's going to be really difficult to erase that instinct to associate swing path this fade/slice and draw/fade :-\
I can see the challenge of it, but I must confess, it seems a bit contrived and my experience so far confirms that it's counterintuitive to thing that my inside/out swing path tendency isn't going produce the draw I've been conditioned to expect from TGC 1 and 2 ???
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jcauthen04

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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2018, 04:50:06 PM »
Oh Craig, one other thing... I withdraw this as a bug report in the wake of your explanation because clearly, it's working as designed.  It would probably pay to keep this thread open to keep others from reporting it as a (perceived) bug.
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jcauthen04

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« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2018, 01:42:14 AM »
Your swing plane represents the swing path. Swing outside of the plane will push/pull the shot.

Draw/hook is applied with a fast downswing tempo. Fade/draw is a result of a slow downswing tempo.

As a righty, if your desired shot is a draw on target, swing to the right with a fast downswing. This push the ball and draw it back on target.

You can also check out our swing basics video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JgnN7-eb3rY&t=6s

Great video Craig; it answers so many questions about the swing, even going further into partial swings.  I wish I had viewed it on release day.  I might not be on page four of the Open Society tournament after one day, and I'm might be a little better off than 2-2-2 in matchmaking play if I had  :D 
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