What IS next for HB/2k golf?

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Gasman

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« Reply #60 on: July 10, 2021, 03:25:57 AM »
When things get real bad & 2K even comments about their in game Crocodiles looking terrible you know it’s game over for PGA 2K21.

AndersNM

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« Reply #61 on: July 17, 2021, 11:26:18 AM »
I do hope HB devs watch the Open - and take notice how the players do from deep grass. Do they pick a 3 iron and hit out of there, as you can do in PGA 2k21? No. They can barely get back to fairway with a wedge. Just take a look at Paul Casey on the 1st this day.

Martbloke

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« Reply #62 on: July 17, 2021, 02:47:05 PM »
I do hope HB devs watch the Open - and take notice how the players do from deep grass. Do they pick a 3 iron and hit out of there, as you can do in PGA 2k21? No. They can barely get back to fairway with a wedge. Just take a look at Paul Casey on the 1st this day.

Agreed.

And how often do they hit the rough too but what I can't tell is how much distance is lost because of it. Does it compute to what we have now? Unsure. What I can see is when they go for the green and slice/hook it that the ball still goes the distance of the flag or close to.

If they had rough more penal like you say then missed tempo can be a slight distance loss but more of a hook/slice spin so you hit the rough and then that is your penalty. However, they can't have set amounts of side spin for set amount of loss as you'd just get people mapping a miss-hit which is ridiculous. Should be a random amount of spin/distance loss and how much randomness is dependent on amount of miss.

AndersNM

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« Reply #63 on: July 17, 2021, 02:58:15 PM »
I do hope HB devs watch the Open - and take notice how the players do from deep grass. Do they pick a 3 iron and hit out of there, as you can do in PGA 2k21? No. They can barely get back to fairway with a wedge. Just take a look at Paul Casey on the 1st this day.

Agreed.

And how often do they hit the rough too but what I can't tell is how much distance is lost because of it. Does it compute to what we have now? Unsure. What I can see is when they go for the green and slice/hook it that the ball still goes the distance of the flag or close to.

If they had rough more penal like you say then missed tempo can be a slight distance loss but more of a hook/slice spin so you hit the rough and then that is your penalty. However, they can't have set amounts of side spin for set amount of loss as you'd just get people mapping a miss-hit which is ridiculous. Should be a random amount of spin/distance loss and how much randomness is dependent on amount of miss.

They loose distance, but mostly due to no roll. The massive distance loss in the game is okay when we talk big hooks and slices, and such are very rare when we see top level golf.
I think the main thing to fix is to have a more smooth increase in penalty as you miss, instead of the hard lines of the zones. That way if you miss severly, you do get a massive hit - but a bare miss is just that - a bare miss, so a little loss in distance, but not that huge (also include the left/right miss you get).

hammers1man

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« Reply #64 on: July 17, 2021, 06:25:54 PM »
I do hope HB devs watch the Open - and take notice how the players do from deep grass. Do they pick a 3 iron and hit out of there, as you can do in PGA 2k21? No. They can barely get back to fairway with a wedge. Just take a look at Paul Casey on the 1st this day.

Agreed.

And how often do they hit the rough too but what I can't tell is how much distance is lost because of it. Does it compute to what we have now? Unsure. What I can see is when they go for the green and slice/hook it that the ball still goes the distance of the flag or close to.

If they had rough more penal like you say then missed tempo can be a slight distance loss but more of a hook/slice spin so you hit the rough and then that is your penalty. However, they can't have set amounts of side spin for set amount of loss as you'd just get people mapping a miss-hit which is ridiculous. Should be a random amount of spin/distance loss and how much randomness is dependent on amount of miss.

They loose distance, but mostly due to no roll. The massive distance loss in the game is okay when we talk big hooks and slices, and such are very rare when we see top level golf.
I think the main thing to fix is to have a more smooth increase in penalty as you miss, instead of the hard lines of the zones. That way if you miss severly, you do get a massive hit - but a bare miss is just that - a bare miss, so a little loss in distance, but not that huge (also include the left/right miss you get).
There were so many wild tee shots in the Open first 3 rounds, big slices and hooks. If anything it seems that the driver is too forgiving left or right in this game if you miss the tempo box quite a bit.
It is strange watching good drivers in the game so wild off the tee.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2021, 06:37:36 PM by hammers1man »

hammers1man

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« Reply #65 on: July 17, 2021, 06:34:47 PM »
The option to have long grass like fescue in the next game would be fantastic. This golf game needs more of a variety of lies. Like Anders said no amateur or pro would pull out a 3 iron for a bad lie in heavy rough.

Icyken

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« Reply #66 on: July 18, 2021, 03:38:16 AM »
Grass that moves around in the
wind would be nice  !
Looks silly static grass with trees
and bushes blowing about... 8)
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AndersNM

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« Reply #67 on: July 18, 2021, 06:38:28 AM »
I do hope HB devs watch the Open - and take notice how the players do from deep grass. Do they pick a 3 iron and hit out of there, as you can do in PGA 2k21? No. They can barely get back to fairway with a wedge. Just take a look at Paul Casey on the 1st this day.

Agreed.

And how often do they hit the rough too but what I can't tell is how much distance is lost because of it. Does it compute to what we have now? Unsure. What I can see is when they go for the green and slice/hook it that the ball still goes the distance of the flag or close to.

If they had rough more penal like you say then missed tempo can be a slight distance loss but more of a hook/slice spin so you hit the rough and then that is your penalty. However, they can't have set amounts of side spin for set amount of loss as you'd just get people mapping a miss-hit which is ridiculous. Should be a random amount of spin/distance loss and how much randomness is dependent on amount of miss.

They loose distance, but mostly due to no roll. The massive distance loss in the game is okay when we talk big hooks and slices, and such are very rare when we see top level golf.
I think the main thing to fix is to have a more smooth increase in penalty as you miss, instead of the hard lines of the zones. That way if you miss severly, you do get a massive hit - but a bare miss is just that - a bare miss, so a little loss in distance, but not that huge (also include the left/right miss you get).
There were so many wild tee shots in the Open first 3 rounds, big slices and hooks. If anything it seems that the driver is too forgiving left or right in this game if you miss the tempo box quite a bit.
It is strange watching good drivers in the game so wild off the tee.

I don't agree that we see many big hooks or slices. The misses are not that huge, but since the rough is very long right next to the first cut, many do find the long grass which on a normal PGA event would be cut rough. Missing fairway on the course this week means trouble.
If the game had tempo square to target and not swingplane, I would agree completely that tempo need to increase penalty left or right, but since the swingplane also contributes to misses left or right you need to take that into consideration. Again - I would like to see a smooth and progressive increase on penalties left and right from the perfect center, not the hard lines of the zones.

And yes, what I really would like to see is more rough: light rough, medium rough, heavy rough, deep rough that is uncut grass. Add the ability to choose cut length in the setup of the round on how long the rough is for the different types - and it would be really good. The designer can set a default cut-length, and you can change that on setup.

Martbloke

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« Reply #68 on: July 18, 2021, 02:11:31 PM »

I don't agree that we see many big hooks or slices. The misses are not that huge, but since the rough is very long right next to the first cut, many do find the long grass which on a normal PGA event would be cut rough. Missing fairway on the course this week means trouble.
If the game had tempo square to target and not swingplane, I would agree completely that tempo need to increase penalty left or right, but since the swingplane also contributes to misses left or right you need to take that into consideration. Again - I would like to see a smooth and progressive increase on penalties left and right from the perfect center, not the hard lines of the zones.

And yes, what I really would like to see is more rough: light rough, medium rough, heavy rough, deep rough that is uncut grass. Add the ability to choose cut length in the setup of the round on how long the rough is for the different types - and it would be really good. The designer can set a default cut-length, and you can change that on setup.

I do like the idea of a progressive penalty the more from centre you are BUT...I don't like that it would be a consistent and mappable penalty.

I like HBs idea of having a perfect zone and then a forgiveness zone around that that gives you a slight penalty. Outside that I just don't think it's right to be consistent in penalty if you hit that same spot. If I miss-hit the ball IRL, I've an idea of a rough direction where it may go but it doesn't always pan out that way. I just dislike the idea of knowing where your miss-hit shots go.

I think, as you say, they need to work on their lie mechanics as that is what really matters in golf and we are seeing that at the Open. That and more focus on the swing that makes sense to players and provides good outcomes.

AndersNM

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« Reply #69 on: July 18, 2021, 02:58:15 PM »

I don't agree that we see many big hooks or slices. The misses are not that huge, but since the rough is very long right next to the first cut, many do find the long grass which on a normal PGA event would be cut rough. Missing fairway on the course this week means trouble.
If the game had tempo square to target and not swingplane, I would agree completely that tempo need to increase penalty left or right, but since the swingplane also contributes to misses left or right you need to take that into consideration. Again - I would like to see a smooth and progressive increase on penalties left and right from the perfect center, not the hard lines of the zones.

And yes, what I really would like to see is more rough: light rough, medium rough, heavy rough, deep rough that is uncut grass. Add the ability to choose cut length in the setup of the round on how long the rough is for the different types - and it would be really good. The designer can set a default cut-length, and you can change that on setup.

I do like the idea of a progressive penalty the more from centre you are BUT...I don't like that it would be a consistent and mappable penalty.

I like HBs idea of having a perfect zone and then a forgiveness zone around that that gives you a slight penalty. Outside that I just don't think it's right to be consistent in penalty if you hit that same spot. If I miss-hit the ball IRL, I've an idea of a rough direction where it may go but it doesn't always pan out that way. I just dislike the idea of knowing where your miss-hit shots go.

I think, as you say, they need to work on their lie mechanics as that is what really matters in golf and we are seeing that at the Open. That and more focus on the swing that makes sense to players and provides good outcomes.

I don't see how you would map a progressive increase in penalty, as long as the input from the player has thousands of points, and not a few. I don't see any problem. Craig(HB) said they had some randomness to TGC 1, which they removed and that they don't like random in the game. However, if there are just a few points you can land on the timing-meter, like you see on the videos (2 points in the perfect etc) - that is just not good however you make it. It is needed to be as many as possible. Thousands. If the timing in nanoseconds - the player have no control to map anything in a progressive meter.

However, the random I would like to see belongs to a "simulation" setting, where the game have wind-gusts etc. This is not for everybody, so it needs to be possible to choose.

I agree that the visuals are important, and there is nothing wrong in providing that with no zones. Just have a gradual white to black in accordance with the penalty that is set, which will be different with regards to difficulty level and club chosen. It would make it much easier to have a better gap between the difficulty levels without the hard lines. And I also think it would be much easier to have differentials from driver to wedge where the penalties are linked to the loft of the club so a 4 iron is harder to hit than a 8 iron etc (as it is now, all irons have the same windows/zone size).

I really like the close-up photos on the players lies on the coverage from the Open. This again can be used in the game. Give the player a close up photo of the lie. With the modern graphic engines, that should not be too hard to do. But to get all the nuances of different lies is impossible in a video golf game - but the rough and long grass needs major improvement - and it would make the short game become much more realistic. I should mention the sand lie as well. I do not like the lie%, so I think this should be made different. How exactly is not easy to envision, so I appreciate the difficulty in coding different lies. But please - when the ball rolls into a sand bunker, it will not be plugged. How unrealistic it is to be in a fairway sand bunker where the ball has rolled in, and find a 55-66% lie (which I guess represent a plugged lie?).
« Last Edit: July 18, 2021, 03:06:34 PM by AndersNM »

Martbloke

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« Reply #70 on: July 19, 2021, 01:21:24 PM »

I don't agree that we see many big hooks or slices. The misses are not that huge, but since the rough is very long right next to the first cut, many do find the long grass which on a normal PGA event would be cut rough. Missing fairway on the course this week means trouble.
If the game had tempo square to target and not swingplane, I would agree completely that tempo need to increase penalty left or right, but since the swingplane also contributes to misses left or right you need to take that into consideration. Again - I would like to see a smooth and progressive increase on penalties left and right from the perfect center, not the hard lines of the zones.

And yes, what I really would like to see is more rough: light rough, medium rough, heavy rough, deep rough that is uncut grass. Add the ability to choose cut length in the setup of the round on how long the rough is for the different types - and it would be really good. The designer can set a default cut-length, and you can change that on setup.

I do like the idea of a progressive penalty the more from centre you are BUT...I don't like that it would be a consistent and mappable penalty.

I like HBs idea of having a perfect zone and then a forgiveness zone around that that gives you a slight penalty. Outside that I just don't think it's right to be consistent in penalty if you hit that same spot. If I miss-hit the ball IRL, I've an idea of a rough direction where it may go but it doesn't always pan out that way. I just dislike the idea of knowing where your miss-hit shots go.

I think, as you say, they need to work on their lie mechanics as that is what really matters in golf and we are seeing that at the Open. That and more focus on the swing that makes sense to players and provides good outcomes.

I don't see how you would map a progressive increase in penalty, as long as the input from the player has thousands of points, and not a few. I don't see any problem. Craig(HB) said they had some randomness to TGC 1, which they removed and that they don't like random in the game. However, if there are just a few points you can land on the timing-meter, like you see on the videos (2 points in the perfect etc) - that is just not good however you make it. It is needed to be as many as possible. Thousands. If the timing in nanoseconds - the player have no control to map anything in a progressive meter.

However, the random I would like to see belongs to a "simulation" setting, where the game have wind-gusts etc. This is not for everybody, so it needs to be possible to choose.

I agree that the visuals are important, and there is nothing wrong in providing that with no zones. Just have a gradual white to black in accordance with the penalty that is set, which will be different with regards to difficulty level and club chosen. It would make it much easier to have a better gap between the difficulty levels without the hard lines. And I also think it would be much easier to have differentials from driver to wedge where the penalties are linked to the loft of the club so a 4 iron is harder to hit than a 8 iron etc (as it is now, all irons have the same windows/zone size).

I really like the close-up photos on the players lies on the coverage from the Open. This again can be used in the game. Give the player a close up photo of the lie. With the modern graphic engines, that should not be too hard to do. But to get all the nuances of different lies is impossible in a video golf game - but the rough and long grass needs major improvement - and it would make the short game become much more realistic. I should mention the sand lie as well. I do not like the lie%, so I think this should be made different. How exactly is not easy to envision, so I appreciate the difficulty in coding different lies. But please - when the ball rolls into a sand bunker, it will not be plugged. How unrealistic it is to be in a fairway sand bunker where the ball has rolled in, and find a 55-66% lie (which I guess represent a plugged lie?).

Yep many, many points you could hit would be good. I was talking about the red fast before the changes. People could easily map hitting a certain area on it as it hooking x amount of distance. That to me is crazy when you relate the red fast to a miss-hit shot causing a hook.

Wind-gusts would be good. I do like the graphic they show of the wind and my does it change a lot and when quite gusty it can go from 12mph to 17mph quite easily. If that was in game and affected the ball quite a bit, then I do wonder how it would feel when you hit a shot allowing for a rough 13mph cross wind only for it to end up way way left as it gusted to about 17 or 18mph while in flight. Would people accept that I wonder or think the game is cheating them or it feel a bit too out of their control random? If it was an option to have on then I guess there's no issue. This I guess, is where HB have to find a balance as it is only a game. It does however feel a bit unrealistic how the wind seems to have a constant affect on the ball in air as it stands.

I did try playing with no wind meter at all and have the scout cam on so I could quickly flick to the green to see what the flag was doing and then judge wind speed from that to add a bit of realism as who knows the speed of the wind while out on course? More about feel right? That was hard though to judge haha.

Sand - I thought they said they had added something so the game knew that the ball had rolled into the bunker so wouldn't give too penal a lie in these instances but at times this does not seem to be the case like you say. Or was it 2019 they added that in?? I forget.

AndersNM

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« Reply #71 on: July 19, 2021, 02:59:52 PM »

I don't agree that we see many big hooks or slices. The misses are not that huge, but since the rough is very long right next to the first cut, many do find the long grass which on a normal PGA event would be cut rough. Missing fairway on the course this week means trouble.
If the game had tempo square to target and not swingplane, I would agree completely that tempo need to increase penalty left or right, but since the swingplane also contributes to misses left or right you need to take that into consideration. Again - I would like to see a smooth and progressive increase on penalties left and right from the perfect center, not the hard lines of the zones.

And yes, what I really would like to see is more rough: light rough, medium rough, heavy rough, deep rough that is uncut grass. Add the ability to choose cut length in the setup of the round on how long the rough is for the different types - and it would be really good. The designer can set a default cut-length, and you can change that on setup.

I do like the idea of a progressive penalty the more from centre you are BUT...I don't like that it would be a consistent and mappable penalty.

I like HBs idea of having a perfect zone and then a forgiveness zone around that that gives you a slight penalty. Outside that I just don't think it's right to be consistent in penalty if you hit that same spot. If I miss-hit the ball IRL, I've an idea of a rough direction where it may go but it doesn't always pan out that way. I just dislike the idea of knowing where your miss-hit shots go.

I think, as you say, they need to work on their lie mechanics as that is what really matters in golf and we are seeing that at the Open. That and more focus on the swing that makes sense to players and provides good outcomes.

I don't see how you would map a progressive increase in penalty, as long as the input from the player has thousands of points, and not a few. I don't see any problem. Craig(HB) said they had some randomness to TGC 1, which they removed and that they don't like random in the game. However, if there are just a few points you can land on the timing-meter, like you see on the videos (2 points in the perfect etc) - that is just not good however you make it. It is needed to be as many as possible. Thousands. If the timing in nanoseconds - the player have no control to map anything in a progressive meter.

However, the random I would like to see belongs to a "simulation" setting, where the game have wind-gusts etc. This is not for everybody, so it needs to be possible to choose.

I agree that the visuals are important, and there is nothing wrong in providing that with no zones. Just have a gradual white to black in accordance with the penalty that is set, which will be different with regards to difficulty level and club chosen. It would make it much easier to have a better gap between the difficulty levels without the hard lines. And I also think it would be much easier to have differentials from driver to wedge where the penalties are linked to the loft of the club so a 4 iron is harder to hit than a 8 iron etc (as it is now, all irons have the same windows/zone size).

I really like the close-up photos on the players lies on the coverage from the Open. This again can be used in the game. Give the player a close up photo of the lie. With the modern graphic engines, that should not be too hard to do. But to get all the nuances of different lies is impossible in a video golf game - but the rough and long grass needs major improvement - and it would make the short game become much more realistic. I should mention the sand lie as well. I do not like the lie%, so I think this should be made different. How exactly is not easy to envision, so I appreciate the difficulty in coding different lies. But please - when the ball rolls into a sand bunker, it will not be plugged. How unrealistic it is to be in a fairway sand bunker where the ball has rolled in, and find a 55-66% lie (which I guess represent a plugged lie?).

Yep many, many points you could hit would be good. I was talking about the red fast before the changes. People could easily map hitting a certain area on it as it hooking x amount of distance. That to me is crazy when you relate the red fast to a miss-hit shot causing a hook.

The only reason anyone could map anything, is because of the small number of points you could have on the meter so you actually can hit the same spots every time - and the fact that the meter is not progressive. If it is human impossible to hit the exact same spot every time, and that there are thousands of spots you can end up on the meter, and no spot give you the same penalty, but a progressive penalty from the center and outwards both sides - it is impossible to map anything. You would not need anything random in the swing mechanic - though many players would think that the game is random since you don't hit the same spot every time - or get perfect every time.

And this is real golf - no one hits the ball exactly the same from swing to swing. So as long as you have enough points, you would not be able to have the same result on any shot - which should be the situation they would want. On easy difficulty, the results would be more or less the same, but not so on the higher difficulties.

Actually, the same thing should be true for backswing length - many points, and quite impossible on higher difficulty to hit the shot the exact same length every time. Ofcourse, that would need to remove the "distance control", but that again can be selected on/off in the settings - lockable for a society. Most important on the short game, but also apporach shots. And no slowing the backswing at the top - and allow for much more than 105% overswing. Let's say you have a chip shot, and you bring the backswing all the way in this way - the power should actually almost be a full swing shot with the club in hand. No backstop. No slowdown to let you know when to stop the backswing.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 03:12:25 PM by AndersNM »

FRSTDWN

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« Reply #72 on: July 19, 2021, 06:25:26 PM »
A new game is the future with competition.

Being a huge Tiger fan I hope HB hits a perfect perfect online and society play.
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ISAWTHAT

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« Reply #73 on: August 11, 2021, 10:40:16 AM »
EA stuff kinda excited?! 

"They've got Augusta National and the Masters, and now the 150th Open and its host venue are coming to EA Sports PGA Tour for its 2022 return."

"The Old Course at St Andrews, which will host the historic 150th Open Championship in 2022, will be getting the next-gen makeover."

"The 2022 edition – the first in seven years – will be created with EA’s Frostbite engine, which will render every hump and hollow of the most famous golf course on the planet, as well as the Royal and Ancient clubhouse and Swilcan Bridge in stunning next-gen visuals."

"The game, which will be released next spring, will offer players the chance to live the life of a PGA Tour pro, including all four majors, as well as the Players Championship and FedEx Cup Play-offs."

Nice to see this far out that EA can give us this info, as well as a definitive "will be" release window.

« Last Edit: August 11, 2021, 10:49:31 AM by ISAWTHAT »
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jeffield

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« Reply #74 on: August 20, 2021, 09:33:37 AM »
I dont know whats next for them so we just unleashed another 55 event season of real and lidar courses to take us through the winter of 21/22.  Yes, on pro (no scout cam).  I am flexible to set it to middle ground difficulty.
   We will be playing pga2k21 until any news surfaces.   
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