HB studios HELP! - Ball not coming off the club correctly **BUG**

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Brighttail

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« on: January 18, 2015, 09:42:47 PM »
Hello there.

I have done quite a bit of testing on this situation using level lies and off the tee to ensure that the lie I have is perfectly level.

Regardless of what way the wind is blowing, there are multiple times that this occurs, here are some examples of what i'm talking about.

0 wind.  I don't touch the aim marker what so ever. I make a swing with (any club it doesn't matter).  I make a perfectly straight shot (as indicated on the red marker) and the ball will randomly jump right or left a few degrees the moment it leaves the club face.  Under the above conditions, the ball should travel completely straight and at the pin, but this doesn't always happen.

On my test scenarios I used 130, 150, 180 yards with level lie, zero wind, medium greens. I have been able to figure out the club/loft to ensure the ball travels 130, 150, 180 yards within 1-2 yards plus minus.  So under these conditions, the ball should be either just below the cup, just above the cup or in the cup.  Over 50% of the time, the ball however leaves the club face a degree or two (right or left it seems random) of center.  The result is for 130 yards i'm 4-5 feet right or left of the pin.  150 i'm 7-10 feet away and at 180 i'm almost 15 feet away right or left of the pin...all on straight shots with 0 wind.

Now I use a PC with mouse and keyboard.  My friend tried the exact same hole and over 40 shots using the same conditions, but he uses a controller on an x-box.  (It took him 60 or so shots to ensure all the shots were perfectly straight)  His results were FAR different than my own.  Out of 40 shots 38 of them were perfectly straight, with 4 holes in one.

Now I appreciate if The Golf Club makers add this little variance into the game to ensure the game has more randomness and a bit of luck involved as real golf does, I even invite it.  Unfortunately it seems that this is a PC issue when using mouse/keyboard controls and not with other platforms. If this is the case then it creates an unfair playing advantage and should be address.  I would appreciate if someone could look into this.

Thank you,

Brighttail
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 12:53:10 AM by Brighttail »

Steve2golf

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« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2015, 11:22:29 AM »
"Now I use a PC with mouse and keyboard"

I was just going to report this as well today. I reported this very same thing before with pictures earlier as well and was told all was well. All is not well, not even close. Until yesterday I assumed all was fair, and everyone was getting a completely random initial starting line. Well I found out they are not.

After seeing someone on a PS4 score 52 I thought something is up, So I did a little different test, I used a not so level lie, published my 164 yard uneven lie practice hole as a testing ground, it's 1 hole so you can restart till your heart is content. Interesting though, the m/kb in the designer, matches the result of the controller in game, in that starting line is only effected by axis hit, which is why I published to test.

Using the wind gauge as a judge of where the initial line starts it is pretty easy to tell initial starting line.

Using mouse and keyboard and recording the axis hit, my results for the mouse and keyboard were as follows. The initial starting line is completely random and the dispersion is quite wide. It does not matter what lie you are on it has no impact on start line. The initial starting line is completely random. The axis hit also has no relationship to the initial starting line and it continues to be completely random.

So I plug in my controller and do the very same test, well what a difference. The initial start line is not at all random, but the lie has zero effect on the starting line. In other words, the only thing effecting the starting line is the axis swing. Very predictable and very fair but IMHO not at all accurate.

My conclusion is neither are accurate to real world, the lie should have an impact in addition to the axis swing.

However with that said, the controller has a major advantage over the mouse and keyboard, in that the initial starting line is impacted by only the axis hit, fair predictable and reasonable if there is going to be no initial starting line impact as a result of the uneven lie. However the m/kb has a completely random initial starting line with a wide dispersion with the axis hit not having any bearing whatsoever on the initial starting line.

I hope that's clear.

IMHO, I don't much care which one is going to rule at the end of the day, initial starting line can be random, or be impacted by the axis hit, but it needs to be the same for everyone, presently it is not, not even close.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 11:30:47 AM by Steve2golf »
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Steve2golf

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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2015, 11:35:38 AM »
With all that said, I believe the flight of the ball and reaction to the wind, axis hit and lie, ie  the magnus effect, is accurate and very well done. Its the initial starting line that's not fair or same for all.
Course(s) Created TGC 2019:
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Steve2golf

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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2015, 12:02:02 PM »
Photo's of mouse and keyboard. Controller Initial starting line is dependent on axis hit and seems normal. Plus I need 2 hands to use a controller, unable to hit the screenshot in time.

As you can see clearly, the starting line is completely random, I tried for same axis miss as well and wind is similar, lie is identical.

You might say close enough, but it's 30 or 40 feet dispersion.

If it helps I can provide same evidence with dead straight axis m/kb, the results are identical though, right left and center, completely random.





« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 12:09:08 PM by Steve2golf »
Course(s) Created TGC 2019:
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Brighttail

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« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2015, 12:52:44 AM »
So anyone from HB studios wish to comment or at least acknowledge that this is either intentional and it happens on all platforms or that you will look into it please? :) :)

HB_LorinB

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« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2015, 04:40:08 AM »
Sorry Brighttail, Adam, who handles the support forums, was out yesterday.  I am sure he will respond when he returns.

Steve2golf

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« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2015, 07:59:56 AM »
Sorry Brighttail, Adam, who handles the support forums, was out yesterday.  I am sure he will respond when he returns.
Super thank you.

In case he doesn't read long posts, I wish to highlight this part. "Interesting though, the m/kb in the designer, matches the result of the controller in game, in that starting line is only effected by axis hit, which is why I published to test". To me that says, fix is easy.

Its perfect in the designer, I never have seen it jump off line unless the axis was missed, and the jump was always in the direction of the axis miss.
Course(s) Created TGC 2019:
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Brighttail

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« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2015, 10:34:43 AM »
Sorry Brighttail, Adam, who handles the support forums, was out yesterday.  I am sure he will respond when he returns.
Super thank you.

In case he doesn't read long posts, I wish to highlight this part. "Interesting though, the m/kb in the designer, matches the result of the controller in game, in that starting line is only effected by axis hit, which is why I published to test". To me that says, fix is easy.

Its perfect in the designer, I never have seen it jump off line unless the axis was missed, and the jump was always in the direction of the axis miss.

Thank you thank you!!

Steve2golf

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« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2015, 02:15:55 AM »
Well I know it's only been a couple of days or so, but I can do a lot in a couple days. Idle hands are the devils workshop.  ;)

Crickets so far from HBS on this issue. However I was thinking since this effect is not in the designer, it's in the game on purpose by design for the m/kb. No offense but I'll call it the straight shooter effect. So I went and looked into some unity programming last night and seen the setting for the random variance for the various controller options. So I conclude after seeing that, that it's not broken, it's by design. Then I start thinking why on earth would a developer do such a thing, and do such a thing for the m/kb only. No offense intended, but that is mighty bizarre thinking to make such a conscious decision. Further the only reason I can think of is the mistaken believe that only the m/kb can be configured to hit straight and the mistaken believe that the controllers are somehow immune. So to combat straight, you crank up the random variance for the m/kb. You cannot punish just straight, and must do it for all shots, so everyone with a m/kb has to put up with a random variance.

Any controller on any system is not immune though to be configured to hit straight, not even close. But in my experience once programmer put their minds to beliefs, mistaken or not they don't budge easily. In actuality its easier to fix an xbox controller on any system then it is to fix the m/kb on the PC, and PS4 is easiest of them all. But I'm not turning this into a cheat thread.

Above might seem weird but they don't have the option to program a random variance for straight only, they only have the option of how much random variance within a range and for which controller. Why I think it is a bit weird, if you were going to combat straight, why pick on the m/kb? I get not putting in the random variance across all controllers, that is what makes WGT the worse game on the planet, the random variance IMHO. But why on earth is only the m/kb given the random variance, again I can only draw one conclusion from that, and that is stated already, the developers believe 'only' the m/kb can be configured to hit straight. That thinking is naïve.

With that said, the graphic and use of ghosts already combats and identifies the straight shooter, there is no need to have a random variance for the m/kb only. And that is assuming it's there because the programmers believe only the m/kb can be fiddled with. But people just like to use a mouse and keyboard on a computer and 99% are totally legit. Personally, and I might be alone, but if I wanted to use a controller I would do so on a $350 console not a $3800 alienware laptop. There is just something so wrong with turning my $3800 laptop into a $350 console.

However my testing is over, my complaining is over, I'll assimilate, I'll move to controller f/t. No choice with the scores dropping as low as they are right now recently, no chance of competing against the controller with a m/kb any longer. The random variance for the m/kb is just far to wide. Scores may climb for a bit, but as in RLG, to get better, you have to get worse.

But I just wanted to express my complete dismay over the conscious decision to put the boots to 99% legit m/kb users because of 1% of players that can be easily identified and avoided. To have such and uneven playing field across platforms and controllers is as far from right as it gets. Why not just remove the ability to use a m/kb altogether, at least that way, up front, you know what you are getting and what you need to do and what you need to use to play the game with. Because with such a far and wide random variance for the m/kb the net result is the same as present day anyway.

So there you go, prove me wrong, tell me I'm wrong, I'm in, I'm ready, lets rock.
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Brighttail

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« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2015, 07:20:05 PM »
For the record I love your pictures up top.  You can see using the Wind direction and speed windows as a on screen measuring device.. you can see how much difference there is from shot to shot, even when on the same hole, same club, same swing.  YOu can see the deviation of 1,2, 3 or even 4 degrees.  That is huge when you are shooting at a pin 180 yards away.  As we have said that difference can mean being right next to the pin or 30 feet away, and we did nothing different. We swung the club the same way, with the same wind, with the same power and the same position of the ball. Nothing changed other than something random in the game decided to change.

As I said, IF this is a 'quirk" or 'feature' in the game that EVERY platform has to deal with.  Fine. I'm okay with this as it adds a bit of unpredictability to the game.  But if it is only on one platform and not the others, then it becomes an unfair advantage/disadvantage.

Please comment and let us know HB! :)

Anquila1978

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« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2015, 10:30:21 AM »
0 wind.  I don't touch the aim marker what so ever. I make a swing with (any club it doesn't matter).  I make a perfectly straight shot (as indicated on the red marker) and the ball will randomly jump right or left a few degrees the moment it leaves the club face.  Under the above conditions, the ball should travel completely straight and at the pin, but this doesn't always happen

This happens on the ps4, completly illogical results from the input/ouput information

Seems to happen most often on the par 3 tees, the ball will shoot left/right in little winds, also had the following senario today on Old Beaver Creek 1st hole

Ball below feet, wind blowing at 2mph at 5pm on the clock face, aimed three squres left of the pin, took my shot and the output in the cone had the line with pixilation to the right of the cone, not a small amount but a poor shot heavy fade but not a out of cone slice.

The result I got was short and left by 12 yards, evreything in the shot telling me I should have been short right but thing went left......go figure.

The game is becoming more and more confusing







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« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2015, 10:54:46 AM »
Hey all, sorry for the delay.  We're taking a look at it, but the control types have no differences between them in terms of the way the ball is going to come off the club.

Steve2golf

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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2015, 05:27:10 PM »
Hey all, sorry for the delay.  We're taking a look at it, but the control types have no differences between them in terms of the way the ball is going to come off the club.

He's right, my testing today is indicating there is no difference in the controller on PC to the m/kb. The controller has a random start line as well today and it seems with the same frequency as well. I cannot speak to other platforms, I have the x-box1 maybe I'll give it a go later.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm good with what I'm seeing today.
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Brighttail

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« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2015, 06:58:22 PM »
Hey all, sorry for the delay.  We're taking a look at it, but the control types have no differences between them in terms of the way the ball is going to come off the club.

This is nice to hear, but I have a question. I posted that I was 207 yards out with a 0 wind.  i tapped 10 times on the right arrow key to adjust for the slope and hit a straight ball according to the graph.  I ended up 10 feet off the green to the left and in the water.

I was placed back in the same position, tapped the 10 times on the right arrow key, still 0 wind and hit a straight shot.  I ended up 9 yards to the right of the pin in the sand.  How is this possible?  Even if i miss clicked the keyboard once even twice, there shouldn't be this much discrepancy between two identical shots.

So I have two questions for you Adam:

1. does your backswing taht isn't indicated anywhere in the game effect how the ball comes off the club. I ask this cause it is possible my backswing is not straight and could be causing this issue and i just dont' know it.

2. If it isn't the backswing is there some sort of random formula that says regardless how straight the ball will hit there may be a degree or two random 'squirt' off the face of the club.  I ask this cause in a 20 MPH that goes from right to left, I am on a tee and hit a straight shot and the ball will jump to the right, against the wind by about 2-3 degrees before coming back to the left with the wind.

I'm just looking for confirmation one way or the other.

Thanks,

BT

Zmax

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« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2015, 08:36:31 AM »
Hey all, sorry for the delay.  We're taking a look at it, but the control types have no differences between them in terms of the way the ball is going to come off the club.

Adam,

Any status on this bug?  Simulator users are also seeing this problem.  Here are two videos.  The Left video is where the ball jumps or starts off too far to the left, thus missing the green.  The Right video is where the ball appears to have started off a little to the right of center despite the 1 degree left ball path measurement.

Notice the shot analysis screens at the end of these videos.  The user is using a GC2 launch monitor.  For both shots, the launch monitor measured the same 1 degree left initial ball path(practically straight).  But as you can see in the two videos, TGC launched the ball at different starting paths.

Left video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r19d2zpDTmY

Right video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOdgcSK0Ueg

 

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